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VaGent 1984 JC 24ft rebuild

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/17/2010 at 9:54am
Originally posted by VaGent VaGent wrote:

 

I took the boat out Sunday & tried to set the idle in gear & the best it will idle is at 1150 rpms which is way high. If I try to go any lower the engine just shuts down.  I have been told by several people including a boat motor mechanic that I most likely have a stuck ring(s) or loosing compression. He told me to run Marvel Mystery oil in my gas tank instead of regular outboard oil & run the engine at WOT & see what happens then. If the rpms increase & it starts idling correctly then I"m in god shape. If not it means I most likely need to bore out the cylinders & put in new pistons & rings.

Do NOT run the mystery oil by itself or at all for that matter. If you have a portable tank, mix up 2 gallons of gas, 1 can of Seafoam and 5-6 ounces of TCW-3 oil. Start the engine and run it for 15 minutes and then shut it down (You may have to work the throttle to keep it going). Let it sits for 15 minutes or so. Start it back up and run it again for another 15 minutes. Then hook the motor back up to your regular tank and take it out for a good run. I seriously have doubts that it"s a stuck ring, cause it would not run well at any speed and most likely would have self-destructed by now. I think you still have a carb problem or a linkage problem. But try the above and see if it helps..

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Woody Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/17/2010 at 9:58am
I"m with Vinny on this one, that just doesn"t sound right and you stand to lose a LOT if the advice is bad. That would be a last ditch stand, and I don"t think you"re there yet. First run the compression tests and see if that is even the problem. If it actually is the problem I think you may have some better options to try first, such as removing the plugs and soaking the cyclinder for a few days with a penetrating oil (or perhaps Marvel Mystery Oil).  I"ll bow to Vinny"s expertise on the options (I"m not a mechanix and can"t spell it either) but I do think you have safer options to try first.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/17/2010 at 11:19am
I soaked my cylinders with Sea Foam myself and always add it to the gas (along with the oil). But definitely with the others on their advice.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VaGent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/17/2010 at 4:56pm

WOW  Thanks to everyone for the advice about the Marvel Mystry oil as I had no idea NOT to run it as the mechanic said. I"ve used Mystry Oil over the years in many auto/truck engines & in some cases it really helped. I wasn"t at all sure about using it in my outboard & that is why I posted my problem. I guess now I will have to remove 24 gallons of fuel in the tank that has only Mystry Oil in it at the present & try what rickdb1 suggested & go from there.

After I rebuilt the carbs & ran the engine it appeared to run just fine until I got to the lake & then it just didn"t want to idle but it did at home. In fact the tach showed about 800 rpms but I knew I needed to set the idle with the engine in gear in the water. When I  tried doing that the best I could get was 1150 rpms because the engine would die if I tried getting it any lower.

As I am reading the advice is it my understanding that "IF" I did use Mystry Oil O ALSO need to use outboard oil mixed 50:1 too? Man I hate to waste all that 24 gallons of gas in the tank now but it looks like I don"t have a choice. I sure don"t want to ruin the engine. I had already add the Mystry Oil to the gas tank (24 gal tank) mixed 50:1 but have no run the engine yet as I was planning on going out on the lake in the morning. Guess that isn't going to happen now for sure.



Edited by VaGent
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Woody Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/17/2010 at 5:04pm
Les, get Rick"s feedback, I trust it better than mine.  BUT, I don"t think all is lost. Our concern was running just the mystery oil without the 2 cycle oil as lubrication through the fuel is critical to a 2 stroke engine. Your truck is a 4 stroke and the mystery oil was added to the crankcase, not the fuel, and was delitued with the oil already in there. Mystery oil may function well as a 2 cycle oil, but I don"t know that and would not want to risk it without knowing. If you decide to not run the current mixture in your boat though all is not lost. Take the gasoline with the mystery oil in it and add it to your truck fuel tank, perhaps 5 gal of that with every fill up of the truck until it is used up. It may smoke a bit but it won"t hurt anything. Not need throwing away good gasoline!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote darrklim2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/17/2010 at 5:05pm
No reason to remove the 24 gallons of fuel. Just add Two cycle oil to it to get you at a 50:1 mixture. It won"t hurt to run it with that oil in it. Just don"t run that oil alone in the gas.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VaGent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/17/2010 at 5:18pm

Thanks Woody & darrklim2. I will put 10-15 gals into my truck as it needs filling up now & will drain out the rest into portable tanks. I"m going to try rickdb1"s suggestion before I do anything else. Once that is done I"ll post the results. Can the TCW-3 oil br bought at Walmart or is it a dealer item only?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote darrklim2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/17/2010 at 5:20pm
TCW-3 is just a rating on 2 stroke oil. Most 2 stroke oil is TCW-3 rated but just to be sure check on it. I buy mine at Wallyworld.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VaGent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/17/2010 at 6:01pm

Thanks darrklim2. I"ll pick some up later this evening & start working on the engine in the morning. It"s been HOT again here today & I'm worn out. No rain is in the forcast for the rest of the month. We are in a bad drought right now.



Edited by VaGent
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VaGent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/15/2011 at 4:44pm
I talked to Nick yesterday & he told me the plastic HAD to be cut using a router. I have a router but I am not at all good using it so I decided to go another route. I've used 1/8" Plexiglas to make the instrument panel & I'm going to cover it with foam & then cover that using marine grade vinyl that I have that matches my pontoon seats. I still have to make a mount to install the binnacle which will have a storage unit underneath along with a cup holder made into it.

I had hoped to paint it this weekend but they are calling for rain & the POLLEN is so thick right now I don't dare try to paint as the console would turn GREEN before the paint on it dried. Angry I'm using PLASTI-KOTE brand paint along with a clear coat over the color. So I guess I'll install the WHITE & BLUE LEDs I got from PS today & work on the binnacle mounting.

Just a couple of pictures of the before & after at the stage it is in at present. The gauges are NOT the ones I'll be using but I put them in to show how it's going to look. The EZACDC Deluxe switch panel fits like a glove as I was determined to make it work somehow rather then buying a different panel.









Edited by VaGent - 04/15/2011 at 4:47pm
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Moved your post here Les as it seemed more appropriate than in the the announcement of EZACDC new website.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VaGent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/17/2011 at 6:53am
Thanks Charles. I'm STILL working on the pontoon after I "thought" I was all finished. I guess its true when they say you never get finished with a pontoon boat. LOL 

Hoping to get the console actually mounted on the boat today after painting everything. I wanted to do that yesterday but we had some bad thunderstorms & tornado warnings for my area. Thankfully all I got around here was hard rain & some wind. No damage at all that I can find.

Once the console is in & all connected then its on to mounting the new LEDs I got from PS. Then the fog lights & having a rear fence built so I can install the privacy room, porta potti & sundeck. I'll be placing my 24 gal gas tank in the center in front of the engine with the batteries on the side with the privacy room on the other side. I'll wrap it in the vinyl covering that PS stuff used to sell & then put the stripping on it I got from you. And then mount the windshield & am/fm antenna along with the uhf/vhf antenna too.

I'm still waiting for the 597ciHD gps/fish finder to come in as it was on back order so I still have that to mount & wire up too. I've got a lot to do but my goal is to have it all done no later then May 31st so it will be ready to  try out that new engine. Looks like the tow of us just can't STOP working on our pontoons does it? Clap
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/17/2011 at 9:26am

Its never ending even though my wife wants me to end it soon LOL

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VaGent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/16/2011 at 1:07pm
 
Well I've finally got around to some pictures of the "nearly" finished console I got from WCD. I still have a few "loose wires" Angry to arrange properly but it's finally all mounted & fastened down. I installed the new HUmmingbird 597ciHD fish finder/gps & compass yesterday along with XM Satellite Radio. I'm waiting on the Teleflex Lido series hour meter to come in & that will finish up all the gauges. Then install the front "kick panel" & the console is all done.

It took me a lot longer then I thought due to weather, not feeling very well & lots of other things but it's finally finished other then the "loose wires" which will be done this week. ALL systems are working properly & I'm about ready for the water. Building the binnacle mount took some "thinking" on my part as I wanted it to be a certain way for comfort but it worked out OK. I reused a few things Charles already had mounted like the steering wheel, horn, LED light & power outlet. I "added" the switched panel, gauges, XM radio & mounted a LED underneath the console so I could see to work on anything if I needed to. Had to get a longer steering cable due to the larger size of console but it worked out well. The only thing left to do now is to install the windshield & hook up the "GUEST" switch & finish the sun deck & porta potti enclosure & then I am finished. UNTIL I find something else I want to do. LOL I'm waiting on the welder to finish welding the sundeck frame together & getting some gas struts to help lift the porti potti enclosure.

Was planning on taking it out over Memorial Day weekend but I'll be in Nashville that weekend (Sun, Mon & Tues) & then have to go back to Nashville the following week of June 7th thru the 12th. Maybe after that is all over & done with I can get it the water the following weekend if the weather is good. I NEED to relax on the WATER & enjoy the boat instead of the highway for a while.



Edited by Wildcat Dude - 05/16/2011 at 1:30pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/16/2011 at 1:36pm
Show a closeup pic of your binnacle mount please and inside it too if possible. I might be interested in building one myself. I'll be gone the 1st week you mentioned but will be at work that 2nd week, so come on by City Hall and I'll show you my cramped hole called the computer lab.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 2ltime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/16/2011 at 1:52pm
Looking really good Les.  Love that console.  I think I am going to build my own, I may steal some of your design.  The boat has come a long way.  I am itching to get out on the water too.  I still need to fab up the new rear extensions and sun deck.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VaGent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/16/2011 at 2:02pm
Here you go Charles. Its the best I could do with the camera. The mount is made using AZEK that I had left over is nothing more then a "box" that is 1/2" larger inside then the actual binnacle itself. I glued it together & used pocket screws & fastened it to the console using pocket screws but no glue as I wanted to be able to remove it just in case I needed to work on it at a later date. I still have to make the "kick panel" using the cover I got from you so all the wiring coming up through the deck will be hidden from view  protected from damage. Not to mention I hate seeing wires & cable showing for any reason.  Angry Now then if I can remember  "how" to post more then one picture everything will be fine. LOL  Let me know if you need a template for your binnacle as I will scan mine & email or PM it to you.
 







Edited by Wildcat Dude - 05/16/2011 at 2:36pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VaGent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/16/2011 at 2:06pm
WOW Don't know what happen with the posting of the pictures Charles but I'm sure you can "fix" it for me.

I mounted the binnacle at a "slant" so I could have plenty of room at WOT without hitting my knuckles on the instrument panel. I "could" made it a lot easier by just making a "vertical box" mounted to the floor & the console but I decided to do it the "hard way" instead. That's the reason I did NOT glue the binnacle mount to the console at this time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VaGent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/16/2011 at 2:10pm
Originally posted by 2ltime 2ltime wrote:

Looking really good Les.  Love that console.  I think I am going to build my own, I may steal some of your design.  The boat has come a long way.  I am itching to get out on the water too.  I still need to fab up the new rear extensions and sun deck.


Thanks Tom. It has been a "long journey" to get to this point but I've really enjoyed doing it. The "last" thing I have to still get done is the under skinning. That is NOT something I am looking forward to doing myself but at some point in the near future I am hoping to get some help & do it. THEN??? Who knows what else I might come up with. Between me & WCD we are never going to get finished are we? LOL
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Actually the underskinning the way I did it wasn't too bad. I did one inch overlaps on 16in centers. So that's 50in for each section, those are easy to hold up with one  hand, get a screw started in the other hand, once fastened, you can then use both hands to finish. Hardest part was the V for the motor pod area but actually not too bad either other than being a little cramped.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote m and m Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/16/2011 at 4:03pm
Looks GREAT!   

underskinning with a helper is really pretty easy.  My helper was my neighbor's 7 yr old daughter - she was the perfect height to stand and support the sheets on her head!  took us about 45 minutes to do the whole boat.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VaGent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/16/2011 at 4:50pm
You two sure make it sound easy.  LOL I guess the hardest part is standing there looking at it & how low it is to the ground. I'm not going to tackle it until I get back from Nashville & maybe I can get a friend of mine to come over & give me a hand. I would sure like to get it done.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote m and m Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/16/2011 at 8:17pm
i had a pair of air nibblers to make short work of the sheet metal.  i used 10 ft long pieces, 4 ft wide, and my z channel was 4 ft on center (more or less), so a few cuts to get around the transom and my underdeck tank, and it was smooth sailing.

good luck.  well worth the effort - quiet, smooth ride.  even my wife noticed what a dramatic difference and commented that it was worth it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote p3cflyr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/16/2011 at 9:17pm
That sure looks good Les.  Very well done!! Thumbs Up

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Looks great Les. Coming along nicely..Beer
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Thanks everyone. I am very pleased with it.

I re-measured my cross members yesterday & found them to be 49" wide & the majority of them are 24" on center front to rear except where I added & moved some of them when I relocated the transom. I had also removed 2X4s that had been cut to fit in between the cross members length wise & were on 24" centers side to side. I removed them as they were in bad shape & never replaced them as they were treated lumber. I'm installing .053 6061 sheets of aluminum so I hope that the spacing isn't too far apart to give it proper support. Back around the transom is where it's going to be the hardest to fit as I will have to make sure my measurements are right BEFORE I do any cutting. The first sheet will only be 7'-6" long due to the added & relocated cross members. All the rest will be on 8' centers with a 1/2" gap on each side of the logs. That "should" allow for plenty of drainage.

I need to ask a question of everyone. Do all the control cables along with the main electrical connections to the engine pass through the transom on everyone's pontoon or do they come up through the rear deck? Mine are all coming into the front of the transom & I'm thinking about making another hole in the rear to bring them up instead of having them lay inside the transom. I have no other choice other then to let the control cables go through the transom but I don't much like the idea of the main engine electrical cable along with my water pressure gauge line inside of it. What's everyone's thoughts about doing that? Now is the time for me to change it since I'm about ready to underskin. Any information would be appreciated. My gas line does not lay in the transom either.
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Some come from the rear frame of the deck, some travel up the center. I had relocated mine to travel through the center to take up excess slack, while the throttle and shift cables go more to starboard. Its your choice what fits best for you. Keep in mind, those sheets will be MUCH easier to handle if you cut them. You said your supports are on 24 inch centers, so the only difference between mine and yours, is that I would have 3 supports that the 50 in cut piece attaches to while you would only have the 2 supports. Yours would be 50 inches base measurement because your supports are generally 2 inches wide, some are wider, so measuring from the beginning of one to the end of the next support will give you the proper fit for the one inch overlap between sheets for a good seal. Have EVERYTHING (wires, cables etc) above the bottom of the supports, you don't want a screw going into a wire or cable, so having everything tidy under there is critical (use wire supports or cable guides screwed to the deck for the electrical). You don't want anything rubbing either. But always keep in mind you want slack for future relocations if necessary. Having your pieces cut to proper length, allows you to remove a panel without having to remove the whole sheet. Plus its MUCH easier to install that way (as I did it by myself with no supports). Hardest part will be near the transom (just for cutting, measurement for the V section, no so much as holding anything up). So run them wherever you want, its your choice. Everything except the steering cable and transducer comes up the middle of my transom.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote p3cflyr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/17/2011 at 10:52am
Only my shifter and throttle cables run through (above) the transom.

Mike
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote m and m Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/17/2011 at 12:08pm
mine exit the motor on the starboard side and run up the log in a big bundle.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VaGent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/17/2011 at 12:25pm
Thanks for all the advice everyone. I'm going to go ahead & just have my throttle & shift cables running inside the transom & have all the electrical running outside of it. I just feel better doing it that way. I have all new insulators that the wiring will run through in all the cross members so I think I will be safe as well as possibly fastening them to the decking to reduce vibration.

I got real lucky this morning as a friend of mine who is also rebuilding a pontoon boat is going to help me with the under skinning. That takes a load of my mind as I'm not at all sure my shoulders will allow me to do it by myself. Angry  We're going to do a little "horse trading" & help each other. LOL Got to go to Fastenal & pick up the self drilling screws & get it all done.  Hope to have it all done once I get back from Nashville on the 12th of June. 
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