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    Posted: 03/11/2013 at 8:11am
I just got done taking out my new rebuild and was not happy with the performance, the boat is a 20ft with 22" round tubes, it came with a 70hp it went about 20mph, with the rebuild i added more cross members and added a 106" engine pod on that extends past the pontoons and put a 115hp on (the 115hp was on my 25ft and went about 28mph). with the new set up I was struggling to get up to 25mph. it felt like i was being pulled back, almost like a parachute, there was severe water turbulence around the engine pod and lots of spray coming from the pod up and over the tubes and spraying out the outside of the tubes. Do you think if the boat is under skinned this will take care of the problem?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rlcrews Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/11/2013 at 8:27am
i am no expert and one to be talking , however i have been researching this for myself and have decided YES you need to do so . my guess is with the rebuild you have changed the balance in the boat and how it sits in the water . the back being lower , than before.

 to really get an idea of what is happening, with my own boat i had someone drive the boat while i looked under the boat , no video, it saw it as it happened.( my boat has a very slow speed at this time so i was not in danger by leaning over the front to watch ) at the back of the boat it was nothing but a huge boil no getting on plane, looked more like i was plowing .

if you got that kind of speed on a longer heavier boat , and you are not on the shorter lighter boat it has to be in the setup .

 imagine being in a boat with power trim , you nail it but leave the trim all the way down .you plain out and reach the top speed for that set up . then you trim out the motor and you gain up to another 10 mph . you are on plane and not plowing
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote keosports Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/11/2013 at 8:55am
underskinning is going to be my first step, lifting strakes of water glide are some other options I was thinking of, I also have a set of spare 21' pontoons that I could possibly use but they are only 20" diameter
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote p3cflyr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/11/2013 at 9:02am
Might check the motor height in relation to the bottom of the transom pan first.  Any possibility it is set too low?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VaGent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/11/2013 at 9:02am
What is the length of the shaft of your outboard? 20" or 25"? How high is your motor mounted? I don't really know the answer but it sounds to me like you might possibly have a engine mounting problem.

Based on everything I've learned on this forum & from others "under skinning" will NOT cause this type of problem. Under skinning provides a "shield" (so to speak) that prevents the water from hitting against the cross members thereby causing "lurching", drag, noise & lower performance. The under skinning "smooths" everything out & makes the entire ride & performance of the pontoon much better. How much faster you will go depends on a lot of variables. Will you get the same speed out of the 20ft pontoon as you did the 25ft boat?  Who really knows until you try it. Whether you get that much more speed or not is not as important as getting a much better ride, better fuel economy & overall better performance IMO. And at 20-25 mph you will never get a pontoon to truly "plane" like other boats unless you have a tri-toon with LOTS of power. Just my two cents which won't even buy you a cup of coffee.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wal1809 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/11/2013 at 11:39am
I am leaning towards what Vagent said.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote keosports Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/11/2013 at 12:53pm

the motor is sitting in the same exact measurements as the old motor and is sitting the same as the boat it came off from, in the water the boat seams to sit in the water the same as before. the motors are 20"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote curtiscapk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/11/2013 at 2:23pm
That looks way high to me!! The cav plate should be even with the bottom of your toons not with the bottom of the pod..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Liquid Asset Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/11/2013 at 3:28pm
   Underskinning will add about 1mph or so. I don't beleive that is your problem. If you are over reving your motor or it's cavitating lowering it will help. Remember the lower it is the more drag you have so it's a fine line. If you were running a full center log the cavitation plate would be even with the bottom of the transom similar to a regular boat. 2 log boats run a lower height due to the chopped water from the logs , the hard water is deeper. Alot of guys  like a 4 blade prop on a toon just to help out with this but that will lose a little top end. Ok now after seeing the pictures I am going to point out the elephant in the room. Your transom is huge and sits way to low imo. With smaller logs and the large transom moved to the rear with a larger motor your most likely plowing water. You said it feels like the boat is dragging and from the pics it looks like it probably is. The newer boats that have a transom hanging to the rear have either 2 large logs 25"+ or a third with a transom built in. I don't know how much work it would be to move the transom forward shifting the  hanging weight forward a bit so the rear of the toons can float it higher. If you can get a log bolted on infront of the transom it will help raise the rear of the boat. If you have a small log you can play with bolt it on but shim it down a couple inches to the even with your transom. If that works then you can track down a bigger matching log and you'll already know it works ! Trial and error is the best method when building a custom set up !!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Barnmb7117 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/11/2013 at 3:49pm
I am not an expert but would a Jack Plate Help?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote curtiscapk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/11/2013 at 4:18pm
Originally posted by Liquid Asset Liquid Asset wrote:

   . Ok now after seeing the pictures I am going to point out the elephant in the room. Your transom is huge and sits way to low imo. With smaller logs and the large transom moved to the rear with a larger motor your most likely plowing water. You said it feels like the boat is dragging and from the pics it looks like it probably is. The newer boats that have a transom hanging to the rear have either 2 large logs 25"+ or a third with a transom built in. I don't know how much work it would be to move the transom forward shifting the  hanging weight forward a bit so the rear of the toons can float it higher. If you can get a log bolted on infront of the transom it will help raise the rear of the boat. If you have a small log you can play with bolt it on but shim it down a couple inches to the even with your transom. If that works then you can track down a bigger matching log and you'll already know it works ! Trial and error is the best method when building a custom set up !!!
I don't think it is that big.,... here is my stock 94 tracker transom
ok after looking at both it is a littleShocked bigger than mine.... 
 
 


Edited by curtiscapk - 03/11/2013 at 4:19pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Liquid Asset Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/11/2013 at 4:32pm
 I'm not trying to be rude with that post just trying to explain what's going on. If you look at the water mark/line on the logs you can see that the transom is sitting much lower than that. Now add the fact that there is a larger motor sitting further back and it probably now sits even lower in the water than that line. You can seal up the transom and gain flotation sitting still but it will still plow water and probably fill with water spray. If the back of the boat can sit higher in the water it will be good to go ! Since there is already a new transom I would try and find another 22" donor log and weld that new transom into it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote keosports Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/11/2013 at 4:36pm
if curtiscapk and the cav. plate needs to be under the bottom of the toons then I need to lower the motor, on the water the prop seemed to be plenty enough in the water,(I have 2 more bolt holes that i can lower about 2") I had a problem when this motor was on my big boat with 25" tubes, the prop would come out of the water a lot in choppy water. this is a 20" transom motor, my plan is to put a 150hp + 25" on but don't want to sink any more $ until I figure out whats going wrong with this set up. Has anyone had any experience with a Water glide? I can't find too much online besides the companies claims.
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   There are guys on another forum that have waterglides. They do work but require several mounts and repositioning to get them set just right. From what I understand the price has really gone up so most guys are just adding a center log. There isn't really anything wrong with your motor or set up. If you were not plowing all of that water you'd probably be moving out with the 115. You mentioned it felt like a parachute holding you back . If you hang a 150 on the back it will probably sit even lower and not see any real gains. If you can float the boat higher with the waterglide, full center log , or even shorter center log you'll be all set !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PS-Guy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/11/2013 at 5:04pm
Originally posted by keosports keosports wrote:

if curtiscapk and the cav. plate needs to be under the bottom of the toons 


This is not necessarily true.  The cavitation plate needs to be even with the bottom of the pontoons on a 3-log pontoon boat.  By definition, the cavitation plate should run just under the surface of the water while under full throttle.  On a 2-log pontoon boat, this can vary GREATLY from boat to boat.  There is no "set" rule as to where it should be while sitting on a trailer.  The only proper way to get it dialed in is water trial & error.  The sweet spot is as high as you can go with out cavitation, or "blowing out" the prop.
Feel free to contact me for help on your project!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rlcrews Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/11/2013 at 5:05pm
this was going to be an option i was going to use .

 i am now going to a 3rd log instead.

but to answer your question , the post i have read makes claims of hard to setup it correctly the first time and you have to do a lot of tweaking to get the most from it .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote keosports Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/12/2013 at 5:29pm
i have a set of spare 21ft /  21" logs, the mounting brackets on them are actually 1" taller than the brackets on my boat, so do you think these logs will work as a third toon? (my boat has 22" toons) also would it be better to cut the log and mount it in front of the engine pod or just take the pod off? (I have a spare transom that can be welded on the spare toon)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Liquid Asset Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/12/2013 at 7:09pm
  How wide is the new transom you mounted? I'm guessing it's not wider than the logs you have so mounting in front could work. In a perfect situation the full transom log would be best for maximum flotation ,but that new transom looks well built so if you plan on a larger motor a strong transom is going to be needed. If you already have the 21" logs I personally would give it a try. I'm running 3 19" logs with strakes and the center is mounted 2" lower. A slightly smaller log is much better than no third log. I drove my boat once with the 2 log set up and the logs were almost under the water with just a 50 mounted like your boat used to be and my 2 brother sitting in the back. I test mounted a log to figure the height to weld in the transom. There are pics in my rebuild that show the difference even a small log can make. Even it you cut a log short for now and decide to build a full transom log later you can still sell it. Alot of people would rather just bolt a shorter log on vs. remounting a motor and all the work to do a full log. I know in my are that would sell fast on craigslist ! With a minimum expense and a little labor you can try it out. If you see a good improvement and i'm sure you will you can plan to build or buy better center log if you see the need. I don't know if you can weld aluminum or have a contact to do that for you but just cutting it shorter would be an easy job.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote keosports Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/12/2013 at 7:18pm
I do have a friend that can weld for me, i may try cutting the log (main reason being is that the new pod is welded extremely well to the cross members). floatation is not really a problem, even with the 115 the waterline did not move, i did move the batteries to the middle of the boat.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote keosports Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/12/2013 at 7:20pm
would you advise putting strakes on the center tube?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Liquid Asset Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/12/2013 at 9:02pm
  Strakes would be great but not necessary at first. If you like the way it handles they are easy to add after the fact it you have a guy to weld.  If you cut and reweld that log remember to pressure check it first for leaks. I know with mine we had a couple after the strakes we added. No more than 2 psi along with a soap water solution will show any leaks before you hit the water for a test run. Most transoms and logs are just bolted on. I wouldn't weld on the new log . Bolt it on and see how it works for you. Good luck and keep us posted !                  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote keosports Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/17/2013 at 1:45pm
got the boat all underskinned and took it out, got up to 28mph @ 5000 with no water turbulence,next move is to modify and bolt on my extra pontoon, going to cut it down to 12' to fit in front of the engine pod. I am not sure how much performance the 3rd log is going to help but if it adds considerable buoyancy I will be shopping around for a 200hp.
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dang y'all got speed boats or pontoons  Big smile   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote keosports Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/18/2013 at 11:38am
i got both and trying to get the best of both worlds, I also have a little 16' jet boat that goes 50mph but my wife is scared to go on it so i am trying to get a pontoon to go 40+ without having to spend $50k on a high end pontoon. hoping to keep the project under $15k
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Sorry to hear all the issues with your boat, but it looks like you are starting to get it figured out. Do you figure the water deflecting off the bottom of the deck was the cause of all the turbulance at the back by the motor. I am very interested in this because I am considering doing something sismilar soon.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cabinetman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/27/2013 at 12:50pm
If you're going to ad a 200HP motor on to your boat you're go need as much log as you can get. 1 1/2 yrs I put a 150hp johnson on my boat and only gained about 10 mph so last spring a added a 3rd log set it 18" behind the outside logs it set my boat about 4" higher in the water gave me better steering also it quit cavating because I couldn't get the motor into the water at the height (to much power). I then underskined it  got a smoother,quiter ride and it didn't throught water into the transom or over the motor form the outside logs so keep the center log as long as you can
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote keosports Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/27/2013 at 6:42pm
Cabinetman what motor did you have before the 150? i would be thrilled with a 10mph increase
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cabinetman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/27/2013 at 7:03pm
I had a 75hp force on my boat when I got it I don't a
have a gps so I can only guess at my speed I think I was onlky doing about 12 to 15 mph with the 75 When I put the 150 on I felt I was getting about 22 to 25 mph based upon friends around me with speedometor on there jet skis couldn't get any becaues I kepth cavating. Then I desided to put a 3rd log under it did a lot of reading up on adding an extra log I came up with putting a 22' log I set the frong back 6" behind the out side logs witch set the builtin transom 18" back of the other logs I was able to get the prop in the water at the wright hieght so I didn't cavate and I pickup about 2 to 10 mph more it can set you back in your seat now I was getting a lot of water in the top of the transom and on the motor I then skined about half of the undercarrige that stop almost 90% of the water overflow that  also helped
I've sense finished the underskining. I can now stay up with some of the smaller jetski.Hpoeful I'll beable to gps my speed this summer.
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if you have a smart phone you can download a gps speedometer app for free
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote keosports Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/27/2013 at 10:17pm
when i got the underskinning on and lowered the motor 2 slots i picked up about 4-5mph and a much smoother ride topping off at 28mph with the 115hp. my mechanic tells me that i should have a 25" instead of the 20" i have now. i am hoping a 150hp 25" will get me in the upper 30mph
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