Pontoon Forum Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > Pontoon Boat Forum > Start Your Own Personal Thread
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - The 3rd Toon Decision...
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

The 3rd Toon Decision...

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Message
TheBigDog View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: 07/03/2014
Location: Alabama
Status: Offline
Points: 19
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TheBigDog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: The 3rd Toon Decision...
    Posted: 08/18/2014 at 9:56pm
Hi Everyone

I am fairly new to the pontoon thing and to the Forum if I am posting where I shouldn't someone kindly show this old fella the correct place to do such.

I am at a stand still with my rebuild and am kinda stuck trying to decide where to get my 3rd Toon.  I am full of questions and I really hate to sound like a 12 year old when talking to these companies who sell / fabricate the 3rd toon with Transom however we are talking about a good bit of investment and I want to be sure I know what I need and not that I am just buying what they are selling.  There are several places I got info from from Mr. Bill in MO to 2-3 other fabricaters who make new toons.  I hear different stories from some and the same from others. I am going to list my concerns and questions and if you can offer any input please chime in.

1.) With regard to shape and size - I currently have U shaped pontoons that are flat across the top and bolt to the 2" cross members directly via flange type bend on edge, no risers.  Mine are 23" tall and 21" wide.  When adding in the 3rd toon does in need to set exactly even across the bottom of all 3 (Lets say you had the 3rd toon mounted and you put at 2x4 across the bottom of the toons should they be level across or is it good, bad or indifferent if the center tube was 1-2" lower) If there is a need for the center toon to be lower in the water than the outside 2 can you tell me why and how much. I heard about a guy who mounted a 4" lower toon to his center and when he was on the first trip out he cut it hard and it basicly ripped the new toon half way off the boat, this is what has me worriesd

2.) Does the center Tube Need to be U shaped as the other 2 are or is a Round one OK in the middle of 2 U's?

3.) Do you need a Full Bunk for the 3rd toon on the trailer? I ask because the motor and the motor pan / pod just hung from the boat before and I can see adding a roller or 2 for the 3rd but if I don't need the whole V trough I won't use it.

4.) What have you who have done the 3rd Toon Add onfound to be the best distance of "Set Back" past the edge of the deck I am seening 16" to 30" being used on many of the fabricators sites any input here would be great as well.  Also please tell me the pros and cons of setting back say 2 ft or 1 ft etc.

5.) On the transom pan I took off it had a tilt to it at the bolt pad that was about 10 to 12 degrees will the transom mount on new toon need to be laid back as well?

6.) Have you all that have added the 3rd toon seen a fair amount of difference in the boat sitting higher and handling better?

7.) Last question for this post is about steering has anyone used the BayStar Hydrolic Kits? I was going to but was told by the company that SeaStar (more $ and Larger Ram,etc.) is a better option for the pontoon to get good smooth steering the whole family can operate well.

Thanks in advance for any Help sorry about the number of questions. I think this is in my signature but the Boat is a 1999 Landua BT LX 20Ft Fishing toon with a 2011 90 HP Evinrude Etec. I will attach a pic of the blank canvas... 

Thanks so much in advance. This rebuild seemed like a lot of fun when I started but trying to think everything through so as not to have to ReDo it is mind bending.. Can't wait to get her back in the water!




1999 Landau BT 20-LX Fishing Toon with 2011 Evinrude E-Tec 90 HP
Back to Top
RcgTexas View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: 05/05/2014
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 137
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RcgTexas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/18/2014 at 11:00pm
I personally don't think it matters what shape the center toon is...I made mine flat bottom so as to not need strakes on it. It works just fine.

You will find that your boat may still sit a little down in the behind because of the bigger heavier motor.......most go bigger to take advantage of the extra surface.

Set back is not critical unless you go way back then there may be some squat problems.

I put a double width of 2 x6 with covers for about 6 feet to support the extra weight under the center toon. However "V" bunk boards would work for round bottom logs.

I used baystar on mine and am satisfied with it. it does have a limit of 150 hp so keep that in mind.

Good luck and ask if you need. the only dumb question is the one you don't ask.
"Thanks Dad!"
1995 beachcomber rebuild.
135 Honda Fourstroke.
Back to Top
TheBigDog View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: 07/03/2014
Location: Alabama
Status: Offline
Points: 19
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TheBigDog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/18/2014 at 11:27pm
Hi
Thanks for the info and responding. I do not plan to add a bigger motor the 90 is more than enough for me. Was the bay star smooth and easier than cable to turn under power? The bay star / Sea-star company rep told me I may not be happy with bay star as it is not as easy to turn on pontoon. I am trying to take all this in and make the best decisions for my build. Thanks again. Wes

1999 Landau BT 20-LX Fishing Toon with 2011 Evinrude E-Tec 90 HP
Back to Top
SunBlocker View Drop Down
Trusted Experienced Member
Trusted Experienced Member
Avatar
EPWPTQ Award for March 2012

Joined: 11/12/2008
Location: Oconomowoc, WI
Status: Offline
Points: 1177
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SunBlocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/19/2014 at 7:50am
Let me see if I can be of some help here:

1)  The bottom of the center tube should be flush with the outer logs... or a bit lower.  Going lower (2-6") will improve the way that the boat cuts through rough water, but it will reduce the side-to-side stability a little bit.  The boat will have more of a tendency to rock from port to starboard.  W/respect to the guy that almost ripped the tube off..... something else was terribly wrong with the installation.

2)  The center tube does not need to be U-shaped.  But it is preferred.  Bill can set you up with a U-shaped center log.

3)  You absolutely do not need to support the center log with bunks.  This would only become an issue if the log leaks and becomes filled with water.  (But then it could become a BIG issue.)

4)  You can have the center log be "flush" with the back of the other two... but a setback will improve the low speed handling and maneuverability of the boat (docking, etc.).  Too much setback becomes a structural problem and can cause the stern of the boat to squat.

5) Yes, the transom on your center log will/should have a kickback deadrise (angle) 

6)  If your boat is already sitting high in the water, the 3rd log won't make much of a difference.  If you're sitting deep, it can make a pretty big difference in ride height, handling, and economy.

7)  Baystar steering will be just fine with a 90HP engine.  
1992 SunTracker Party Cruiser 41ft
18' Cobalt, 13' ElDebo E-Pontoon
-- Okauchee Lake, WI --
The `Blocker Build
Back to Top
SunBlocker View Drop Down
Trusted Experienced Member
Trusted Experienced Member
Avatar
EPWPTQ Award for March 2012

Joined: 11/12/2008
Location: Oconomowoc, WI
Status: Offline
Points: 1177
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SunBlocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/19/2014 at 7:53am
P.S.  When you're done, make sure you prop that E-Tec so she hits 5200 RPM, and make sure she's not running too deep in the water.  The non-pontoon 90HP E-Tecs are a great engine, but they are a bit finicky w/respect to propping and height.
1992 SunTracker Party Cruiser 41ft
18' Cobalt, 13' ElDebo E-Pontoon
-- Okauchee Lake, WI --
The `Blocker Build
Back to Top
sceman View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: 08/22/2013
Location: Oshkosh, WI
Status: Offline
Points: 308
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sceman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/19/2014 at 8:45am
I'm ordering the iron now for a trailer and I'm going to build bunks for the center toon. Personal choice since I have an inboard tank in the toon and I can't think of a good reason to not support it.
My center toon is too inches larger than the outer toons (26" center, 24" outer), flush across the tops, so it sits 2" deeper than the outer toons. I've heard of OEMs "rough water packages" going as much as 4", but I was worried about the rocking Blocker notes. I live on a waterway connected to 2 very large and often rough lakes and it handles the waves very smooth. It also handles turns at WOT like a bowrider.
 
My center toon is set back approx. 12" past the back of the outer tubes. If I had to do it again, I would have gone 18". I wouldn't go farther than that
 
 
2014 home-built 22' tritoon Solid Aluminum
Merc 150 4-stroke
Back to Top
Cabinetman View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: 03/27/2013
Location: Arlington, TX
Status: Offline
Points: 19
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cabinetman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/19/2014 at 6:23pm
I also added a 3rd log to my pontoon I got it form Bill in Mo. I got a log that was 1" bigger and setit 2" below the outer logs helped in turning, I set my log 18" back from the back of the boat I wished I had set it back 24" because I made the back of my boat striaght across and very time I trimed up the motor for hauling I had to be careful and not trim it to much or I'd hit the back of my boat. I went for a 75hp motor to a 150hp and by adding the 3rd log it raised the back of my boat by a least 5" (with new motor) and that helped with the weight of the bigger motor. my center log has strakers on it  witch helped getting my boat up on plane. I could WOT at 40 mph
converted 97 21' party barge to Tritoon
89 150GT Johnson Soon to be E-Tec 250
Back to Top
TheBigDog View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: 07/03/2014
Location: Alabama
Status: Offline
Points: 19
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TheBigDog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/19/2014 at 7:27pm
First off thanks for the input so far and please anyone who has done the 3rd toon addition chime
In with any thing you can think of for me to be sure I consider. I built out a basement once to 2 bedrooms I built a closet in corner of each room thought it was great till I saw a builders idea on youtube for running a wall across the whole room and making it 2 connecting closets with 2 sets louver doors. I tore it out and re did it I love it now. I said that to say that's why I am asking a lot of questions I just don't want to and can't afford to redo a redo. 😄

In one answer one of you all left it made me think about beaching. We beach the pontoon often to let the pups off to pee and I am concerned about the 3rd toon being lower than the others would that push up on the center of cross members enough to become a problem? We don't come in hot but pull up with waves to get where fronts not in water. Does anyone have any experience with this?   If I dropped the 3rd log back 2 ft would I lose much of what the 3rd log adds?

I'm just trying to cover my bases and D.I.R.T.F.T. (Do it right the first time) I appreciate everyone's comments.

Thanks
WES
1999 Landau BT 20-LX Fishing Toon with 2011 Evinrude E-Tec 90 HP
Back to Top
RcgTexas View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: 05/05/2014
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 137
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RcgTexas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/19/2014 at 8:55pm
MY baystar performs well. Way better than the mechanical that I had before ...No tork pull. A seastar unit is good but more expensive, my son has one on his 22 ft pathfinder bay boat. It steers a little smoother but I have no problem with mine. My choice boiled down to $. I went over budget on several things(135 Honda) so I had to cut corners where I could.

I don't think dropping the center toon back will be a problem as long as it isn't too much, in fact several people told me not to have it as far up as the outside toons. making trailering easier for one.

Edited by RcgTexas - 08/19/2014 at 8:59pm
"Thanks Dad!"
1995 beachcomber rebuild.
135 Honda Fourstroke.
Back to Top
p3cflyr View Drop Down
Trusted Experienced Member
Trusted Experienced Member

Excellent Member Of The Month July 2010

Joined: 04/12/2009
Location: Kirksville, Mo
Status: Offline
Points: 1276
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote p3cflyr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/19/2014 at 10:55pm
i would not drop the center tube back two feet without lots of research on potential probs or results.  it is not a common do.
Mike

"Atta Boy" Award June 2011
1987 Lowes Fish and Fun 20ft
1999 Merc 50hp 4 strk big foot
Kirksville, Mo
P3C Orion Pilot
ASW Warfare Specialist
Back to Top
p3cflyr View Drop Down
Trusted Experienced Member
Trusted Experienced Member

Excellent Member Of The Month July 2010

Joined: 04/12/2009
Location: Kirksville, Mo
Status: Offline
Points: 1276
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote p3cflyr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/19/2014 at 11:02pm
I guess you looked at my center tube work i provided for you earlier?   I gave you a link to it.
Mike

"Atta Boy" Award June 2011
1987 Lowes Fish and Fun 20ft
1999 Merc 50hp 4 strk big foot
Kirksville, Mo
P3C Orion Pilot
ASW Warfare Specialist
Back to Top
TheBigDog View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: 07/03/2014
Location: Alabama
Status: Offline
Points: 19
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TheBigDog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/20/2014 at 1:28am
Hi Mike

I did not see a link where would it be? I checked my email and   Messages on here. Looking forward to hearing back from you .

Thanks Wes.
1999 Landau BT 20-LX Fishing Toon with 2011 Evinrude E-Tec 90 HP
Back to Top
SunBlocker View Drop Down
Trusted Experienced Member
Trusted Experienced Member
Avatar
EPWPTQ Award for March 2012

Joined: 11/12/2008
Location: Oconomowoc, WI
Status: Offline
Points: 1177
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SunBlocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/20/2014 at 7:47am
When beaching you run the risk of damaging the bottom of the log, not bending the cross braces.  But as long as you are beaching on sand or soft dirt, you won't have a problem with the center log being lower than the other two.  

The center log should be flush with the front of the other two logs... or AHEAD of them.  It is very unwise to do a center log bow setback.
1992 SunTracker Party Cruiser 41ft
18' Cobalt, 13' ElDebo E-Pontoon
-- Okauchee Lake, WI --
The `Blocker Build
Back to Top
sceman View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: 08/22/2013
Location: Oshkosh, WI
Status: Offline
Points: 308
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sceman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/20/2014 at 8:44am
Here's where I got my tubes from: http://www.buildaboat.ca/
They build the entire tubes .125 thick with full keels on the bottom and sides (should help with your beaching concerns). They also have integrated transoms and built in fuel tanks.
 
Here's the link to my build if you want to see them: http://www.pontoonboatforum.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7983&PID=78183&#78183
2014 home-built 22' tritoon Solid Aluminum
Merc 150 4-stroke
Back to Top
p3cflyr View Drop Down
Trusted Experienced Member
Trusted Experienced Member

Excellent Member Of The Month July 2010

Joined: 04/12/2009
Location: Kirksville, Mo
Status: Offline
Points: 1276
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote p3cflyr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/20/2014 at 10:19am
I gave you a link on your post titled "Third Toon or New Motor Pod" of 4/7/2014.  You have to click on the blue print "here" in the sentence.
Mike

"Atta Boy" Award June 2011
1987 Lowes Fish and Fun 20ft
1999 Merc 50hp 4 strk big foot
Kirksville, Mo
P3C Orion Pilot
ASW Warfare Specialist
Back to Top
RcgTexas View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: 05/05/2014
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 137
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RcgTexas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/20/2014 at 4:07pm
Unfortunately my research and development team does not exist. I built my center log 3.5 feet shorter than my outside logs and set it back 10 inches behind the others. It sits 24 inches behind the front deck trim.

I am not advocating anyone do theirs like mine but mine works just fine.

With 30 gal fuel and 4 adults and gear the boat will do over thirty mph/GPS. with a 135 Honda. When I get it propped right it may actually do better.





http://pontoonboatforum.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=8209&title=beachcomber-rebuild-adding-center-pontoon

Edited by RcgTexas - 08/20/2014 at 4:13pm
"Thanks Dad!"
1995 beachcomber rebuild.
135 Honda Fourstroke.
Back to Top
TheBigDog View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: 07/03/2014
Location: Alabama
Status: Offline
Points: 19
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TheBigDog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/21/2014 at 6:51pm
Hi

The only place we ever have or would need to beach it is in the sand I was thinking that should be Ok too but wanted to hear from others as yourself who have had some experience with it.

Thanks.

Wes
1999 Landau BT 20-LX Fishing Toon with 2011 Evinrude E-Tec 90 HP
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.01
Copyright ©2001-2014 Web Wiz Ltd.