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pc3flyr 1987 Lowes Fish-N-Fun rebuild DONE

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    Posted: 10/31/2009 at 8:26pm

Hello to all.  Enjoy this forum and all who contribute.  We"ll do our best to be good members.

We purchased a 1987 Lowes 20 ft Fish and Fun this past spring.  Came with a Tohatsu 30 HP that has run well.  We dropped it in Forrest Lake outside of Kirksville and she stayed in the water until a week ago.  No trailer so local marina pulled her, took motor off and winterized it.  Put motor on a stand I built as a result of digging for info from this forum.  A local Marina has performed a pontoon acid wash and it has helped.  But the toons  are still very rough with build up below the water line. Calcium? 

We will put it in a rented bldg next week. I,plan to work on it this winter.  The plywood and carpet are both failing.  The seats are tired and their wood bases are in sad shape.  So - following is planned:

1.  Redeck

2.  New carpet

3. Work on the logs

4.  New seats and console

5.  Add porta potti and privacy enclosure

6.  Other items along the way.  Yes a new transom is a first item

I will have a few questions as I work.  Iíll try to find answers first via searches, etc. if I can.  My first question is, Is fiberglas covering over marine plywood deck necessary, or more additional protection?


Mike

***resize pics to 800x600 for best viewing***



Edited by Wildcat Dude
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CajunDiver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/31/2009 at 8:56pm
I think the fiberglass would add more weight than protection. I would think with a 30HP you would want the boat as light as possible. Good luck on your rebuild. Looks like you have a good foundation to work with!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/31/2009 at 9:02pm
You"re going to give multiple applications of coil cleaner or some kind of acid on those toons. If you had a trailer, I"d put that toon back into the lake and let it soak for 48hours then put it out and take it immediately to a place with a high pressure wash wand to or have a covey of kids with putty knifes scraping most of that off while its soft. Looks like the rest of it you pretty much got covered. Now this looks like a rebuild project, so if it is, just lets us know and we"ll move it in there.     I had to laugh a little about your statement "the floor and carpet are failing". I'd say the carpet has way past failed .  When you get the redeck kit, get an extra sheet of ply as you can use that to build the transom piece with. As for fiberglass, don't do that. If you get the redeck kit from PontoonStuff, its CCA treated and it'll take care of itself. It's not going to absorb water for a very long time. (the carpet will wear out first).  Also the best time to work on those crusty toons is when you have everything stripped off, it'll be far easier to work on then.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tooner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/01/2009 at 6:32am
Hey Mike, You have your self a nice little project there good luck. as for fiberglass don"t think you need just new plywood and carpet you would be set to go....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote p3cflyr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/01/2009 at 5:55pm
Thanks for the info on fiberglas.  That was my thought also but had seen someone adding a layer of glas on their deck.

This will be more of a project and refurbish than a picture show.  So feel free to move WCD.  Tried to do a better resize on these pics also.

The pics here show the result of at least two treatments with acid cleaning and fresh water wash off.  The prominent, slightly brown crusty stuff will scrape off, so a little effort will help remove them.  And they are worse on inside and rear of toons than outside.  But beneath this stuff is a considerably rougher surface than above the obvious waterline.  Is this rough surface correctable with sanding, more acid cleaning, Nuvite, or another material.  Iíve read most of the toon cleaning topics here but thought Iíd ask for some clarification on best way to go forward.

Iíll try to improve my sig stuff (current lack of) before next post.

Mike













Edited by Wildcat Dude
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/01/2009 at 6:39pm
Ok, got your thread moved to the rebuild section. Now regarding your toons, I see something in the bottom 2 pics that has me concerned. May not be nothing, but I need you to look really, really close as it seems to be a hairline crack from the top to the bottom of that inside starboard toon. I"d keep treating it several more times as its starting to look pretty good to the point where you could do some very light sanding (VERY LIGHT with FINE GRIT), don"t do like I get and get sander happy. Now keep in mind that you won"t get it near as smooth as the top half and yes I"d go with Nuvite (F9 then move down gradually). Also be sure to wear something over your face as you will get BLACK from head to toe and it WILL get up your nose if you don"t wear protection. That rub rail looks odd being that color white , but the rest looks like a normal process and it"ll get whiter as time goes (and polishing it will be easier).  You"ll have pitting to some degree, so don"t try to sand the pits out. If you look at scbadiver"s and my rebuild, we both had a good amount of deep pitting even though from a distance its not very obvious.  You did a good job on the pics, some of our members take a while before they get the hang of the text, pic spacing (especially adding text between pics), but I won"t say who (brian)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/01/2009 at 6:43pm
So how long are you renting this building for? (for the rebuild). I still haven"t done the inside of my toon yet, but yours had a considerable more buildup than mine did, so getting the vast majority of the crud off will help with your performance and saving gas. However with a 30hp, you could go a couple of days compare to my couple of hours on my motor . (see the Arkansas Forum Get-Together), course me running out of gas had a lot to do with underskin damage catching water and slowing me down (A LOT).   Couse now I"ve got full underskinning (except for 1st 2ft or less)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote p3cflyr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/01/2009 at 7:54pm
Thanks WCD.

Is the hairline crack just right (or left) of the vertical weld?  Iíll look good tomorrow.  Appreciate the feedback on further cleaning.  I was about ready to grab some sand paper.  And its good to know that the lower will not be smooth as the upper again.  I might have gotten really carried away.  Now it makes me wonder just how smooth some of the toons were in the cleaning and polishing pics I found via search function on the forum.

Iím renting a space on a monthly basis.  I hope to be ready to get back on the water by April.  Get antsy if on dry land too long.  But rental space is unheated metal 24 x 13 by 13 high!  Problem will be enough warmth to get a good glue set for the carpet.  And as you all already know,  the fence, seats, etc., follow the carpet.  Since I work alone most of the time, it wonít go fast  after carpet.

Mike

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CajunDiver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/01/2009 at 8:17pm

Originally posted by Wildcat Dude Wildcat Dude wrote:

  You did a good job on the pics, some of our members take a while before they get the hang of the text, pic spacing (especially adding text between pics), but I won"t say who (brian)

 

I resemble that remark  I don"t know if I can do the text/picture thing yet.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/01/2009 at 8:25pm
Hairline crack I see is where the end cap is welded on. It might not be, it could be just a shadow, but its very noticeable. As for heating that building, any one of these will do the job, but you might need 2 tanks of gas to get it to set and dry (lower the temp, long it"ll take for the glue to dry out s its water based). http://www.heatershop.com/forced_air_propane_heaters.html. Brain, I didn"t think you read the details  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dahogman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/02/2009 at 11:27am
I agree with others and would not apply resin to the decking.  I would apply it to the transom.  I would use marine CCA treated plywood for the transom.  I would use marine adhesive and stainless steel screws and laminate the pieces together.  Allow the pieces to dry for a couple of days and then apply a couple of good coats of resin.  I applied two coats on the front and back of mine and 4 coats on the edges.  Drill all of your holes before applying resin that way you can get resine in the bolt holes also.  When you install the transom squeeze some RTV silicone in the holes and then slide bolts thru while twisting them to help distribute the silicone.  Use Stainless steel bolts and washers and your new transom should last a good many years.  Pics of my transom
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote p3cflyr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/02/2009 at 3:21pm
Thanks dahogman.  I had seen your transom before during a search of the site a few weeks ago.  The review just now was good and I appreciate the narrative.

Looked at the rear toon this AM for a possible crack.  I think it is a shadow from and next to the weld.  The Marina folks are going to check it for me also.  I"ll update with the result.

Marina folks told me the toons had not been cleaned in a long time.  Looks like fun and games this winter.

Mike
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Back again.  Been busy with holidays, my moms house repairs, our house repairs. Etc, ad nausem!  And its been as cold as a well - you get the idea.

Did not get the weld checked on the rear toon cover.  Hope to get it done after I pull the old deck off.  Will be a pressure test on each log.

I have been on the forum looking at the updates and "searching" for some items which I am interested in.  There is enough info to do pretty much a complete rebuild.  I have a few questions of which Iím not sure of the answers or havenít found an answer.  So here goes:

There are aluminum and plastic fence risers.  Any preference?  Higher clearance is better?

Any source for switch panels other than the auction site, GLSkipper or EZACDC?  Iím looking for wood grain plastic units.  EZACDC is very nice and very pricey.  I like the big console sold by Pontoon Stuff.  Wonder if additional rocker switches can be obtained to add to the four they sell on the full rigged console.

Are come-alongs normally used to pull decking together or just on those with channels to slide the deck panels into?  Start the new deck install from the front or the rear?  When removing old deck screws and all else fails grinding off flush and leaving the stub below seems to be one method (this assumes unable to center drill the old and ezouts fail, etc.).  Then are all holes for the new deck drilled from above without regard to where the old deck screws were?  Or go under and drill a small pilot from the bottem for each one?

Has anyone fabricated a tilt/trim for small outboards.  I"ve looked at the aftermarket ones and think they are high.  The descriptions are not clear to me that they have all necessary parts for the complete installation such as the pump and cylinder as well as the T/T bracket itself.
 
Iíll install a porti-potti and a privacy curtain in the horseshoe on the port side of the boat.  Area measures 24 x 28.  What Iím struggling with is how to put together a curtain support that will fit into this enclosure.  I donít want to put in a ready made large privacy set up due to the loss of deck space.  Anyone done one like this?

Gluing up transom plywood.  Epoxy glue is best, yes?  And is Epoxy same as marine adhesive, if it says Marine Epoxy?  Lay on several strips in critical places (near all edges and through middles) or completely coat between plywood sections?  I"ll put in SS screws as well as severly clamp the sections to cure. What kind of resin to coat the transom? Same as in auto fiberglas repair kits?

Last question for now - has anyone used 3/4 B-B plyform for a new deck?  Its a plywood used for concrete form work, has minimal or no voids and is water resistant due to an exterior oil treatment.  Glue adhearance may be an issue.  Just looking to save dollars.

Sorry for so many questions.  The transom glue up is my hot item for now.

Thanks

Mike
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/17/2010 at 6:14pm

Originally posted by adakops adakops wrote:

There are aluminum and plastic fence risers.  Any preference?  Higher clearance is better?
     Higher ones from my experience is for thicker carpet as they would tend to sink in more and you want the water to flow out cleanly. Thinner the carpet, the shorter the size. As for one or the other as to type, no preference there.


Originally posted by adakops adakops wrote:

Any source for switch panels other than the auction site, GLSkipper or EZACDC?  Iím looking for wood grain plastic units.  EZACDC is very nice and very pricey.  I like the big console sold by Pontoon Stuff.  Wonder if additional rocker switches can be obtained to add to the four they sell on the full rigged console.
      Rocker switches can be obtained if not by PontoonStuff then by others - I think my rebuild mentions where I got the two rocker switches but EZACDC did mention to me last year they were going to make individual rockers available although I haven"t seen it listed separately yet - Contact PontoonStuff and see if they might have an update on that. If not, holler again and I"ll look up who I got my switches from and others will too.

Originally posted by adakops adakops wrote:

Are come-alongs normally used to pull decking together or just on those with channels to slide the deck panels into? 
   Didn"t use come-alongs on mine, they just laid on top, as for the H channel types, should only have to use a rubber mallet to tap them in or use a 2x2 or something to distribute the whacking power  but I"ll bow to those that have done it on H channels.

Originally posted by adakops adakops wrote:

Start the new deck install from the front or the rear? 
   front after you aligned the frame in the X factor, we have guidelines on that in the rebuild section, you measure again in an X fashion every time to make sure you have the frames aligned within 1/16th of an inch (at least 1/8th).

Originally posted by adakops adakops wrote:

When removing old deck screws and all else fails grinding off flush and leaving the stub below seems to be one method (this assumes unable to center drill the old and ezouts fail, etc.).  Then are all holes for the new deck drilled from above without regard to where the old deck screws were?  Or go under and drill a small pilot from the bottem for each one?
  Neither, grind off the head, remove the board and then grind it off flush with the cross member if you can"t remove it with vice grips. Once you grind it flush, it won"t matter where you drill. The new screws are almost twice as large - you need a really good drill driver but that baby will pull the wood down tight.

Originally posted by adakops adakops wrote:

Gluing up transom plywood.  Epoxy glue is best, yes?  And is Epoxy same as marine adhesive, if it says Marine Epoxy?  Lay on several strips in critical places (near all edges and through middles) or completely coat between plywood sections?  I"ll put in SS screws as well as severly clamp the sections to cure. What kind of resin to coat the transom? Same as in auto fiberglas repair kits?
  scbadiver or somebody will chip in on what they used on mine, I didn"t watch them on that.

Originally posted by adakops adakops wrote:

Last question for now - has anyone used 3/4 B-B plyform for a new deck?  Its a plywood used for concrete form work, has minimal or no voids and is water resistant due to an exterior oil treatment.  Glue adhearance may be an issue.  Just looking to save dollars. 
don"t go cheap here, you"ll regret it later when the glue won"t hold, carpet gets rolls in it, etc etc. Oil based NOT good for carpet adherence to the floor. Seems to me that would be really slick when wet.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dahogman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/17/2010 at 7:04pm
I used 3M Marine Adheshive.  I think a Marine epoxy would be fine also.  I would apply a thin coat of glur all over between pieces.  I used automotive resin (Bondo), I didn"t use the matting just the resin.  You will need to work fast and use a cheap brush it will cure fast and you won"t have time for cleanup.  I used those cheap $1 brushes from Lowes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote p3cflyr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/17/2010 at 7:37pm
Thanks Dahogman.  3M Marine or a marine epoxy.  And Bondo or equivalent and no cloth.  Just what i needed.  Worked with fiberglas on a surfboard in HI but that was many many moons (actually years) ago.

WCD I appreciate the info.  Just one last clarification.  When putting new deck down, drill pilot holes from topside?  Reason I ask is the possibility of hitting a previous screw location just off center resulting in a pilot hole too large.  I have a 1/2 in drill driver.

Again my thanks.

Mike
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/17/2010 at 8:36pm
Yes, drill pilot holes from the topside and we never did hit where a previous screw was, we drilled slightly off angle (angled slightly away from the edge by half inch) so as so pull the plywood together tightly, we only did enough to hold, then went back and finished.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote p3cflyr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/17/2010 at 9:46pm
OK great.  Thanks

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Woody Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/18/2010 at 9:28am
Marine expoxy will work fine (I"ve used West brand) but remember to paint it to protect the seams from the sun as the UV light can destroy it.  Resourcinol glude is the traditional marine adhesive used in the boat building industry for wooden boat building and I would recommend it if you can find it.  Brand names are Weldwood or Dap, and I"m sure there are others.  You will find it at better lumber yards.  It is also a two part glue (powder and dark resin) and will leave a dark glue line so you should paint it as well.  Resourcinol would be my glue of choice if you can find it.  Google it and read about it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote p3cflyr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/19/2010 at 1:50pm
Thanks Woody

I"ve read about Resourcinol and lots on epoxy also.  Cureing temp is also important.  Since we stiil have trouble getting above  freezing here and i"m not going to bring it into the house looks like I"ll wait awhile longer to begin any work.  It can be curing while I do the re-deck work later on.  Looks like a late spring launch this year.

WCD - Pontoon Stuff not ready to offer add on switches for their console just yet but are working on the idea.  They asked and I gave an input as to what I would want.  It would be for following: Horn; Nav/Anch; Dock; Courtesy; Stereo; Bilge/Aerator.  Haven"t heard anything further.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bamby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/19/2010 at 4:26pm
adakops wrote:
Iíll install a porti-potti and a privacy curtain in the horseshoe on the port side of the boat.  Area measures 24 x 28.  What Iím struggling with is how to put together a curtain support that will fit into this enclosure.  I donít want to put in a ready made large privacy set up due to the loss of deck space.  Anyone done one like this?



If you apply some engineering you may be able to duplicate something like the above and make it work for you. The top bar that holds the certain just folds down and is held clasped with a piece of black webbing which doesn"t show up on photo and a snap closure holds it in place.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote p3cflyr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/19/2010 at 8:50pm
Thanks Bamby

Something like that is what I have in mind.  And it appears to be simple and functional.. I like that.

Mike


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dahogman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/20/2010 at 12:26pm
Heat lamp works great for curing glue in cooler temps.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote p3cflyr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/17/2010 at 8:57pm
Managed to shoot a blank.  Sorry about that.

Mike


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Mike

"Atta Boy" Award June 2011
1987 Lowes Fish and Fun 20ft
1999 Merc 50hp 4 strk big foot
Kirksville, Mo
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote p3cflyr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/17/2010 at 9:10pm
Finally got rid of the snow and began the work on the Lowe.  Pics and narrative by end of week.  Questions:

For cross members with H channel where the deck lumber butts together.  Mine are 5/8 inch or there abouts.  Deck lumber is 3/4 inch.  Will have to rout both sides of 3 sheets of plywood.   What has anyone done to seal the butt ends of routed deck plywood going into the H channels?  Kinda defeats the use of the tape normally used under the plywood joints.

Planning to use the EZACDC Pontoon wiring harness.  I have 3/8 inch fairleads for the wire bundles to pass through.  Is the EZACDC small enough?  Will I have to cut wires and rejoin with connectors at the end of the runs due to the size of the connectors on the wire ends?

For what its worth, I spent many hours this winter on the Internet shopping for our project.  Considering all aspects (price, shipping, etc.) Pontoon Stuff will be providing most for most of my needs.

Thanks
Mike


Mike

"Atta Boy" Award June 2011
1987 Lowes Fish and Fun 20ft
1999 Merc 50hp 4 strk big foot
Kirksville, Mo
P3C Orion Pilot
ASW Warfare Specialist
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my all new 1975 pontoon! see rebuilds

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scbadiver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/18/2010 at 1:55pm
Hi Mike. I had the same H channel on mine. For what it"s worth, I too routed each panel with a 3/4 bit to thickness and then squirted a healthy bead of plain old caulk in the channel before shoving to board in tight.
Robbie
St Charles, MO
1975 Landau 28'
70hp Johnson
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote p3cflyr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/18/2010 at 2:01pm
Thanks Robbie.  Its nice to know what others have done in a given circumstance.  Since I"ll have to slide in three sheets from the side, I"ll likely apply some caulk to each edge first and put a liberal amount in the channels.  Easier to wipe off excess than to re-deck in couple of years.

Mike
Mike

"Atta Boy" Award June 2011
1987 Lowes Fish and Fun 20ft
1999 Merc 50hp 4 strk big foot
Kirksville, Mo
P3C Orion Pilot
ASW Warfare Specialist
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p3cflyr View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote p3cflyr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/21/2010 at 8:06pm
We finally started our rebuild project. The boat has been in a rental storage building since late fall and is pretty well dried out.

 


 
We hung the bimini frame on a sidewall.

 


Put the motor on a stand I made. 



Took the deck edge rails/trim off and hung on a storage rack we made.



Had already pulled the transom and started a fabrication of the replacement.

 

We have the old seats and console off, torn down and junked Thats my better half doing dismantel work.



The sundeck is off and saved for a pattern. We had a very tight steering wheel/shaft problem also.  This is a Morse steering system and has the ĺ inch tapered shaft.  Weíll used silicone spray and some of the techniques Iíve seen others use on their projects here on the forum.  Two days after the first spray (and a few more sprayings) it came off.  Wife pulled and I hit nut with a hammer. 



Found that this pontoon (a 1987 Lowe) has H channels (total of three) where two sheets of decking butt together.  Of the five sheets of plywood, 3 will be routed on two sides and 2 on one side only.  It also appears that the channel is about 5/8 inch wide or slightly less. 



The deck measures ĺ inch, seems dry and not swelled. The old deck had been routed.  Seems to defeat the integrity of the plywood to some degree and not be good for moisture absorption.  Thsnak to Scubadiver for the caulk recommendation.  Iíll have to be very careful and work test (scrap) pieces of wood until I get the dimensions correct.  Wonder how tight the deck needs to be in the channels?



Trying to insert 8 ft lengths of plywood inside a 13 ft wide space holding a 8 ft wide boat presents a problem, only 21/2 ft of clearance on either side .  Think we"ll try to unbolt the H channel cross members one at a time from one end to the other and insert the routed edges from front to back or vice versa.  Only four bolts hold each cross member on these U shaped pontoons.  Once all sheets are in place we"ll cross measure for square and begin to fasten all the panels as recommended by others here on the forum.

Next steps are to finish clearing the deck and beginning the upgrades. 



Mike
 
Mike

"Atta Boy" Award June 2011
1987 Lowes Fish and Fun 20ft
1999 Merc 50hp 4 strk big foot
Kirksville, Mo
P3C Orion Pilot
ASW Warfare Specialist
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/21/2010 at 9:27pm
I wonder why when they created H beams they ddn"t take in consideration to accomadate 3/4in plywood as that"s been the standard for as far as I know. Wonder if there are some history nuts out there on the H channel?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote p3cflyr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/21/2010 at 11:14pm
An added note.  Found today that the forward most plywood sheet is 5 ft wide and 8 ft long or 5 x 8 rather than 4 x 8!  Now have to figure out the best way to resolve that.  probably add in a C channel and use 4 x 8.

Mike
Mike

"Atta Boy" Award June 2011
1987 Lowes Fish and Fun 20ft
1999 Merc 50hp 4 strk big foot
Kirksville, Mo
P3C Orion Pilot
ASW Warfare Specialist
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