Pontoon Forum Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > Show Off Your Pontoon Boat > Pontoon Boat Rebuild Projects
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Newbie Horizon rebuild
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Newbie Horizon rebuild

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 4>
Author
Message
fxbill View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: 05/24/2013
Location: Atlanta Ga
Status: Offline
Points: 63
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fxbill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Newbie Horizon rebuild
    Posted: 05/28/2013 at 11:47am
Hi to all.... Newbie here with quite a project ahead of me. I was about to cruise out fishing in my little 12 ft flatbottom when I saw a pontoon boat which appeared to be in trouble. I motored over to him and indeed he couldn't get the engine started and was extremely frustrated saying that if he could dump this boat he would do it in a heartbeat.
   I've been on the lookout for a pontoon boat for my lake ever since I moved here after retiring from the film industry in Hollywood about a year ago, but haven't found anything under about $3000-$4000 that was even halfway decent.
   The fellow said he'd take $1000 for the boat and I immediately hooked up to it and towed it back to my dock!

   The boat itself isn't too bad aside from needing new decking which is feeling mushy in some spots and is in horrible shape.....that's a winter job. I'd just like to get it running and enjoy it for the summer right now.








 It has  9.9HP 1998 Johnson 4 stroke on it now which is the HP limit for the lake. The interior seats  and such are in great shape and the pontoons only need a good cleaning. The engine starts and runs great for about 5 minutes and then starts to surge after which it dies.
   I removed and rebuilt the carb only after which I discovered that the fuel pump is bad and due to a split in the diaphram is leaking gas into the crankcase. I removed all the gas lines going to it and used a gravity feed tank to feed the carb with after flushing out the crankcase......same problem although perhaps gravity feed doesn't provide enough pressure to allow the engine to run properly. I'm waiting on a new fuel pump to arrive any day and will then again try it with the pump hooked up correctly.
   I happened onto this forum and it's a wealth of knowledge. I appreciate being here and look forward to any help that I can get or simply learn from reading. I really want this thing on the water!
   Thanks for allowing me to be here!
  Here are some quick photos I took with my phone the day I towed the boat here....
PS.... Anyone with a 15HP carb for this looking to sell it I would love to hear from! I'm not above sneaking a couple of extra horses under the hood! The engine is a J10FRELECM 1998.


Edited by fxbill - 05/28/2013 at 11:58am
Back to Top
PS-Guy View Drop Down
INACTIVE
INACTIVE
Avatar
Senior Admin.

Joined: 12/02/2008
Location: Elkhart IN
Status: Offline
Points: 2009
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PS-Guy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/28/2013 at 12:19pm
Welcome!  I'm not going to be much help with your motor problem, but it sounds like you are already on the right track.  Definitely sounds like a fuel issue.  I would check ebay for your carb question.  Other than that it looks like a great project, and at a great price too!
Feel free to contact me for help on your project!

Pontoon Seats
Back to Top
nathan View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 03/27/2013
Location: leander,TX
Status: Offline
Points: 288
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nathan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/28/2013 at 1:36pm
very nice score!!

is the fuel tank one of the new atwood Tanks? if so you may have to slightly open the cap because with the cap clicked in place there is no vent like on the older tanks. so I creates a vacuum effect and the fuel will not flow. I have been dealing with this on mine. I finally replace the cap on the new tank with a cap from an older tank that had a vent on it. no more vacuum. also if it is a newer tank the gas fumes have no where to vent so they can force fuel into the motor while it is setting still. but with all that said the have a thing call an "On Demand Fuel Valve" that is supposed to keep this from happening. Good luck I know how fuel issues are as I have been fighting them myself.
Back to Top
pyma View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 09/11/2011
Location: Northwest PA
Status: Offline
Points: 10
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pyma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/28/2013 at 7:53pm

I have the same motor, but a 2000 model evinrude. The fuel pump, if you were to take apart there are two springs, inside a pressure washer clip, which the one clip comes out which lets it pump only half as much gas and will eventually run out of gas. Had this problem for a while checked all lines, vents, tank, replaced lines and finally found pump problem. Flattened out the washer clip last time,put back in and has been great since. Don't know if any of this information is related to yours but it drove me crazy for part of one summer, so thought I'd throw that out there.   And Super Deal!!!



Edited by pyma - 05/28/2013 at 8:01pm
Back to Top
bstomper View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: 02/12/2013
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 242
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bstomper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/28/2013 at 9:00pm
Welcome and good find. Looks like a great starter platform. I did the same thing last year, Bought a project boat and drove it for the summer and now I am in the middle on the rebuild.
1989 Sun Tracker DL21
Back to Top
fxbill View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: 05/24/2013
Location: Atlanta Ga
Status: Offline
Points: 63
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fxbill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/28/2013 at 10:31pm
Thanks guys.... I appreciate the suggestions. The tank is just a test tank that the prior owner purchased to see if it made a difference. The boat has a built in tank but with a side fill and the previous owner said he didn't want to have to fill the tank with a can and nozzle each time. I plan on using the built in tank and have a good pump to facilitate the operation. I'll be cleaning it out and adding a good filter to it this week. I also did have the cap loose on the red tank when I was trying it out....I just wasn't sure if going through the check valve of the pump bulb was restricting it enough not to give the carb enough fuel pressure to operate correctly. I did order a complete new pump rather than just a rebuild kit. It was substantially more money, but I thought it better to know that what I put on was ready to go and that I wouldn't be making any mistakes on a rebuild. I owned a replica 427 Cobra for years and built all of the engines for it myself so I'm reasonably mechanically inclined, but boat engines are so much different with their layouts than car engines that I want as much help as I can get....hence the new pump rather than the rebuild. I did do the carb overhaul since that's a simple job and I did find one or two passages that weren't as open and clean as they could have been so hopefully between that and the pump my problems will be solved.
   I've looked at a few of the decking jobs done here and they're fantastic! Mine has closed cell foam as decking. I might leave that there and go over it with pressure treated ply or simply marine ply and cover after that. I still have a lot of reading and researching to do on the site before even attempting it, but for right now if I can simply get the engine to stay running I'll be a happy camper. My cousin lives nearby and has a huge vinyl cutter so I can redo the siding on the boat easily enough and cleaning the pontoons shouldn't be a difficult job. The water here has that Georgia red clay in it and that's what most of the discoloration is from. It comes off easily enough....but again....the first thing is to get it water ready and simply enjoy it for the summer. Rewiring it....(which it needs also since the underside of the dash is a rat's nest) is another easy, but can wait job.
   Thanks again for the suggestions and as soon as I get the pump this week I'll repost on what happens.
   Forgot to mention that the seller threw in 2 new ignition packs costing a couple of hundred each and a foot operated 50 lb thrust trolling motor with it...new in the box along with a complete boat cover, new stator for the engine and a box full of other assorted engine parts. I figure I can sell them to help out with engine repairs if needed!


Edited by fxbill - 05/28/2013 at 10:36pm
Back to Top
fatdaddy View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: 03/12/2013
Location: Whitesburg, GA
Status: Offline
Points: 357
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fatdaddy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/29/2013 at 9:04am
Like you fxbill...I helped build dirt track race cars for years...and trust me when I say if you can rebuild a 427, you can work on a overgrown weed eater motor...buy a seloc manual and you can figure the rest out for yourself...compression, spark and fuel is all it takes....what lake do you guys hang out at?
Keith Winders
Whitesburg, GA
My 1989 SYLVAN REBUILD
24 Footer
88HP Johnson
CHILLIN' THE MOST!
Back to Top
LargeBarge View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 05/05/2013
Location: Hillister, Tx
Status: Offline
Points: 69
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LargeBarge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/29/2013 at 10:11am
Awsome buy! Looks like the console is in pretty good shape. Hope you get the motor running soon!
Travis
28' Harris Flote Boat/ 115 Evinrude
Back to Top
curtiscapk View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar

Joined: 01/30/2013
Location: OP KS \Truman
Status: Offline
Points: 878
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote curtiscapk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/29/2013 at 3:41pm
Wow that is a great find! Sounds like you are on the right track with your fuel issue. I keep on eye out for updates.
Craig n Paula
THE FLOATER Rebuild
94 Party Barge 24' 115 merc
22mph
OP KS
Truman Lake
Back to Top
fxbill View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: 05/24/2013
Location: Atlanta Ga
Status: Offline
Points: 63
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fxbill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/29/2013 at 5:07pm
Thank you.....! I bought a house on High Falls Lake about 35 miles south of Atlanta. It's a 670 acre lake mostly for retirees since it's a little too far to commute each day for work. I'm originally from Atlanta although I lived in Los Angeles for the past 50 years. I was stuck in the film industry doing special effects and at the time most of the work was out there. Now there's more here in Atlanta than in LA! I got called out of retirement to do consulting work on the Vampire Diaries and a few other features down here. It's nice since I can pretty much work out of the house most of the time.
   I researched lakes for 5 years on Lakehouse dot com looking for just the right lake.......quiet...no ski boats or jet skis allowed and the 5th best bass lake in Georgia with a 10hp limit on the engines. I bought this place a little over a year ago at a great price and have a 2 story 3500 sq ft house with an "in law" suite downstairs complete with second kitchen and living quarters. It's on about 4 acres and I have several hundred feet of water frontage. Deer are in the yard daily, I have beavers living near my dock and foxes come to the dock each morning to get water.....It's beautiful.....but remote!
   I rebuilt the card and reinstalled it today and also completely removed the fuel pump...I know this is why the gas was getting into the oil....I just hope it solves the surging issue as well since I didn't have it connected and the engine was still surging....perhaps a gravity flow didn't provide enough pressure... Anyway...here's the obvious fuel pump problem...




Edited by fxbill - 05/29/2013 at 5:14pm
Back to Top
fxbill View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: 05/24/2013
Location: Atlanta Ga
Status: Offline
Points: 63
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fxbill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/30/2013 at 4:19pm
Thanks FatDaddy for the mind jog.... It dawned on me today that I've never built a race engine and used a mechanical fuel pump on it! I went down to Autozone today and bought a $50 low pressure electric fuel pump and the fittings and filters to connect it to the boat engine. I made a blockoff plate for the original pump and "bingo"....fired right up and runs like a champ.....easy squeezy. I've got a fun weekend coming up!!!! Thanks to everyone for the suggestions and support!
  Now, in a couple of months comes the real work!! In the meantime I'm going to simply enjoy the cruising.
Back to Top
fxbill View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: 05/24/2013
Location: Atlanta Ga
Status: Offline
Points: 63
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fxbill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/31/2013 at 6:51pm
Took the boat around the lake for the first time today and it ran without a hiccup! The only problem I discovered is that the original fuel tank has a blockage somewhere in it. I tried a new line and blew into to and applied suction as well....nada. Seems like they built the boat around the tank!
   In fact....in Los Angeles I had a 27 ft 1967 wooden Chris Craft... 12ft beam and flying bridge. It was a beautiful boat, but something was always going wrong with it....like the time the prop fell off coming back into the marina and the 327 Chevy revved to about 5000 RPM instantly. How embarrassing in Marina Del Rey right in front of the Cheesecake Factory where we slipped the boat.....or the leaky stainless fuel cell that prompted the Coast Guard to get all over us about the gas slick around the boat that we weren't aware of.....and in this case the boat was indeed built around the tank. We would have had to rip up thew deck to remove it. We were lucky enough to find a poly replacement that would fit the other side of the boat that was slimmer, longer and with some squeezing did go in.
   The little Horizon surprisingly does quite well with even just the 10HP... I know the 15 will make a difference, but you know, it really doesn't seem all that important....it runs great and no one is out here to race anyway. Sure slips easier than the Chris did.... If you didn't start your turn with the Chris just at the right moment you were screwed.... It only had a single screw so it wasn't very responsive in reverse or tight maneuvering!
  I think I might have to remove some railing or siding to get to the tank on the horizon... I can just see it in the rear quarter panel of the boat. If anyone is familiar with Horizons I could sure use a pointer before ripping and tearing anything I don't have to!
    Today's cruise was great!!!
Back to Top
grimmjj View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: 05/11/2013
Location: malvern, ohio
Status: Offline
Points: 129
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote grimmjj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/31/2013 at 10:46pm
You may want to look at just buying a temporary tank and hook it up to the motor at least before your rebuild. i have one i can send to you for about 20 bucks plus shipping? It doesnt have a ball or hook up line but it may be better than ripping into your tank before the rebuild?? if your interested I could snap a photo of the old tank and put it on here? i would imagine buying a tank on ebay or something is an option. It's only a 5 gallon tank, but it would put you around the lake for a good while. 
1981 playbouy 24' model admiral std.
1979 35hp johnson 35el79a
1995 9.9 evinrude e10releoe
Back to Top
grimmjj View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: 05/11/2013
Location: malvern, ohio
Status: Offline
Points: 129
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote grimmjj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/31/2013 at 10:54pm


mins somtehing like that. I dontk now if it would help, but its something till you can get to yours?


Edited by grimmjj - 05/31/2013 at 10:55pm
1981 playbouy 24' model admiral std.
1979 35hp johnson 35el79a
1995 9.9 evinrude e10releoe
Back to Top
fxbill View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: 05/24/2013
Location: Atlanta Ga
Status: Offline
Points: 63
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fxbill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/01/2013 at 4:26pm
Thanks for the kind offer, but once again I lucked out. I removed the fitting from the top of the inboard tank to investigate and it was nothing more than a stuck check valve in the fitting itself! All I had to do was soak it for several minutes, blow it out and reconnect it. I hooked up the line going to the new electric pump and off I went! I took it out for a shakedown cruise today and circled the lake completely. Not so much as a burp from the engine and when I got back I rechecked the oil level. It was right up to snuff with the engine still clean as a whistle inside from the cleanup I did yesterday. It runs like a top! Now I just have to find a 5000284 carburetor for it at a good price and I'll be thrilled. I looked at complete decking kits last night for about $700 that has the treated plywood that is not corrosive to aluminum and has a multi year guarantee with it....comes with bolts, screws, railing spacers, carpet, glue and everything to completely redeck your boat. I think that's the winter project. Toon cleanup is next and I need to find out where this "Coil cleaner" is available from. Once that's done I'm just going to work on the siding decals and enjoy it for the summer. The decking can wait until I have time when I'm not so interested in being on the boat all the time. Right now I simply want to enjoy what I have for a few months.
   I had a guy come up to me on the lake today in a borrowed pontoon boat and offer me $2500 for it! I was shocked, but told him "no thank you".....I don't think I could replace what I have for that price and yet have less than half of that invested so far.
   Thank you again for the offer though. That was kind of you!


Edited by fxbill - 06/01/2013 at 4:27pm
Back to Top
fxbill View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: 05/24/2013
Location: Atlanta Ga
Status: Offline
Points: 63
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fxbill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/01/2013 at 9:50pm
I need some artistic help....or advise. For the past years of my special effects in the LA film industry I worked on all of the Transformers series, the Spiderman series and the Pirates of the Caribbean series. I was also lucky enough to scavenge a few items from the Black pearl and the Sea Witch before they were destroyed. Some of the best items I got were two of the four captains windows from the Black Pearl, a couple of boarding pins and a  real antique leather water bucket that was used in filming as well as a lot of old rope with the wooden block and falls and aged chain and hatch covers. Here's a photo of a few of the items I saved. One of Jack Sparrow's windows is mounted above my fireplace in the lake house.



   Here's my challenge.... I'd like to style my pontoon boat after the Pearl in a manner of speaking, using the existing seats and console...... not outrageously, but with some graphics and a color scheme on the side panels....and of course with a skull and cross bones flag flying. I've posted photos of the boat as it is now. If there's anyone here with more imagination than mine...and I have zero artistic ability so that won't be hard.... I need some help in color, graphics and the naming of the vessel. I want similarity with a pirate and Pearl scheme, but not overboard....just something that stands out a bit and is not the run of the mill boat you see on the lake.
   Any ideas or takers to the challenge? Anyone good with photo shop that can work a little with the paint scheme and graphics?
   All help and ideas are appreciated. I'm a little offbeat anyway.... I'd love the boat to be the same (offbeat) and for it to stand out from among all the clean, colorful and flawlessly kept boats that the snobby retirees on the lake have!
PS... I'm not above having dark colored pontoons rather than polished aluminum. I'm looking for unique! I might even put a figurehead on the front!




Edited by fxbill - 06/01/2013 at 10:03pm
Back to Top
grimmjj View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: 05/11/2013
Location: malvern, ohio
Status: Offline
Points: 129
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote grimmjj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/02/2013 at 12:00am
if you look at my rebuild (more of a reface) you will see I went with a black console and I painted my rails black. It may give you an idea of color schemes. I was originally going to get some vinyl graphics of all the skulls from the guns and roses album appatite for destruction, but have decided I thing im going black with either stars or I was also thinking warp speed stars. Still not sure on a name for mine, but my suggestion is if your going to fly the flag go all out. I seen a person on the lake one day that had a working cannon at the end of the bow of their pontoon that they loaded m-80's in for effects of launching cannonballs. The whole boat had eye patches and daggers. Plastic daggers I believe. Very creative.
1981 playbouy 24' model admiral std.
1979 35hp johnson 35el79a
1995 9.9 evinrude e10releoe
Back to Top
grimmjj View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: 05/11/2013
Location: malvern, ohio
Status: Offline
Points: 129
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote grimmjj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/02/2013 at 12:08am
perhaps wrapping all Aluminum rails in the rope you have so you dont see the aluminum?
1981 playbouy 24' model admiral std.
1979 35hp johnson 35el79a
1995 9.9 evinrude e10releoe
Back to Top
fxbill View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: 05/24/2013
Location: Atlanta Ga
Status: Offline
Points: 63
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fxbill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/02/2013 at 11:39am
Second thinking that might have just been a late night dumb idea! I do like the black siding on yours though. Every boat on this lake has white or light siding....very pretty and colorful, but I think the black with nice graphics on it could be very attractive!
   I went to check on my table being loose yesterday and pulled it out of the round bezel that it fits into. All I saw was the lake through the bezel and the only thing keeping the table from falling though to the floor is the small kicker bracket that goes to one edge of the table. Is the mount supposed to have a complete bucket with a bottom in it as well or is there some other way you adjust the height of the table? The pole on mine is over 4 feet long! I need to look at some ads for tables and see if they show how the mount works.
Back to Top
grimmjj View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: 05/11/2013
Location: malvern, ohio
Status: Offline
Points: 129
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote grimmjj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/04/2013 at 2:09pm
i would be careful about doint anything terribly dark on the inside just because all those dark colors will attract heat. as you know its already hot on that lake and black will make it hotter. I dont think it would be too much of a worry on the outside, but the inside could be a regret. that s what I was thinking when I painted mine. Just a friendly tip that I thought about.
1981 playbouy 24' model admiral std.
1979 35hp johnson 35el79a
1995 9.9 evinrude e10releoe
Back to Top
fxbill View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: 05/24/2013
Location: Atlanta Ga
Status: Offline
Points: 63
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fxbill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/05/2013 at 9:22pm
Good point and well taken. I'd planned on leaving the inside white as it is.
Now I have a new fuel problem. When I mounted the electric pump (which was a very low pressure unit...4psi max) the boat ran great. Today I received the new stock fuel pump which I immediately mounted and re plumbed without the electric. The boat started fine and I could see the clear filter passing gas through it. I took the boat out and although with the electric it ran perfectly, with the mechanical after about 10 minutes of running the engine started to blubber and die. Before it was a surging from being too lean. I feel like this might be now a flooding problem with more pressure coming from the mechanical pump and when I rebuilt the carb I might have set the float level too high and it's not completely shutting off the gas allowing fuel to push past the needle and seat. I noticed gas dripping from underneath the carb. Does that sound logical? The engine would always restart at idle, but as soon as I'd put it into  gear and try to throttle up it would start the blubbering again. I'm going to pull the carb again tomorrow and drop the float level a little. Every rebuild kit I've ever bought comes with a little cardboard gauge for setting the float height. This one came with nothing and of course the service manual says to use the "Johnson" float gauge to set it with. Leave it to them to require you to purchase their stinking tool to get an exact level. In any case I'm going to try to drop it some and see if that clears it up. I can't imagine that anything else could be wrong since it ran so well with the electric pump and it gets excellent fuel flow with the new pump.....I'm just thinking it might have too much pressure with a float level set too high. Does that sound logical? Any other thoughts?
Back to Top
fatdaddy View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: 03/12/2013
Location: Whitesburg, GA
Status: Offline
Points: 357
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fatdaddy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/06/2013 at 6:55am
I usually set float level with carb body or basically on the same plane!
Keith Winders
Whitesburg, GA
My 1989 SYLVAN REBUILD
24 Footer
88HP Johnson
CHILLIN' THE MOST!
Back to Top
fxbill View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: 05/24/2013
Location: Atlanta Ga
Status: Offline
Points: 63
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fxbill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/06/2013 at 2:25pm
That's where I set this one, but I think I'm going to have to try to lower it just a bit to see if it will put a little more pressure on the needle. The needle and seat are new, but I want to pull the carb today and see how full the bowl is. I might try running it in gear pushing against my sea wall untill it starts screwing up and then pinching off the fuel line with a clamp and see if it doesn't clear up in a few seconds when the gas level drops a bit. I also haven't checked for a leaky primer solenoid, but since it worked fine with the electric pump I doubt that it's the problem. I should have left well enough alone.....it ran great with the block off plate and the electric pump!
Back to Top
fxbill View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: 05/24/2013
Location: Atlanta Ga
Status: Offline
Points: 63
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fxbill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/06/2013 at 9:51pm
Help!!! I checked the carb today and everything in the fuel system is fine. I ran the engine for almost an hour and full throttle pushing up against my sea wall bumpers before anything began to happen and then the stumbling began again. I pinched off the fuel line to make sure that it wasn't flooding and it continued to run that way until it almost ran out of gas and then as soon as I released the gas line it started running again, but still badly stumbling. I'm beginning to think that something in the ignition system is breaking down once it runs long enough or heats up enough. I kind of doubt that it's the coils, but would the ignition pack possibly cause that kind of problem? It sounds as though it's misfiring all over the place and if I pull it back to an idle it will run OK, but as soon as I go into gear and try to throttle up it starts again immediately at any throttle position. It ran perfectly for almost an hour and then started the misfiring in an instant and after that continued. Only if I cool it down for an hour or so will it again run OK until it decides it's time to start screwing up. I'm baffled......
Back to Top
PS-Guy View Drop Down
INACTIVE
INACTIVE
Avatar
Senior Admin.

Joined: 12/02/2008
Location: Elkhart IN
Status: Offline
Points: 2009
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PS-Guy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/07/2013 at 9:22am
It could be ignition, although that seems odd.  Sounds like vapor lock, but I've never heard of that on an out board??
Feel free to contact me for help on your project!

Pontoon Seats
Back to Top
grimmjj View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: 05/11/2013
Location: malvern, ohio
Status: Offline
Points: 129
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote grimmjj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/07/2013 at 10:44am
a quick search for your situation and I produced this. It kind of sounds like the issue your having and from what it looks like you have an ignition problem. I would start in that area. I know nothing sucks worse that having a poor performing engine.
 
 
I apologize in advance if this forum is against posting links to other forums. If it is frowned upon please just let me know. I'm just trying to help a fellow boater as others have helped me.
1981 playbouy 24' model admiral std.
1979 35hp johnson 35el79a
1995 9.9 evinrude e10releoe
Back to Top
fxbill View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: 05/24/2013
Location: Atlanta Ga
Status: Offline
Points: 63
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fxbill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/07/2013 at 4:08pm
Vapor locking is the symptom it's giving and after speaking with a repair man who has worked on a few of these he indicated that yes....they can indeed vapor loc. Yesterday I bought a fuel pressure regulator to see if maybe the mechanical pump was giving me too much, but instead of trying that first since is was raining on and off today I remounted the electric pump since it was a simple 2 hose hookup and connecting the wires to the battery. I failed to mention that less than a month ago the prior owner who was having the surging problem had replaced the ignition module at an astronomical cost and had also replaced the coil pack in his efforts to correct the problem. He missed the bad fuel pump though and that was what initially corrected the problem for me. It wasn't until I put the stock mechanical pump on that I had what seemed like a similar issue, but different characteristics. He had surging from a lean condition due to lack of gas.....I had stalling and stumbling issues...almost like the engine was flooding. Anyway....After connecting the electric pump again I ran the engine for almost 45 minutes and took the boat out and did nothing but figure 8's in front of my place in case the problem happened again. I ran it at full throttle, part throttle and only at very low throttle did it even stumble at all, but ran smoothly all the time and upon opening the throttle to full each time the engine would immediately respond and run great.
   I'm baffled.....and perhaps I didn't run it long enough to produce the problem, but the rain prevented me from having it out longer. I think the problem is gone though and yet I never like to have a condition where I've fixed a problem without knowing what the actual cause was. It should have been great with the stock pump on it. I can only guess at either too much pressure or as mentioned by our fearless leader...a vapor lock.
   If it works....don't screw with it and I know lots of people....myself included who never run mechanical pumps....better to push from the tank rather than to suck from the engine....and trust me....my engine pump sucked!!!
   I'll post again tomorrow after running it for a couple of hours on the lake. I'll tow my little 10ft Alumicraft with the Merc 8HP on it behind me just in case......pontoon boats don't paddle worth a darned!
   Thanks for the help and suggestions from all....hopefully this might just take care of it.....but it'll still leave me scratching my head!
Back to Top
pyma View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 09/11/2011
Location: Northwest PA
Status: Offline
Points: 10
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pyma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/08/2013 at 7:26pm
I posted this before and not sure it is the same issue as mine was, but I would look at the pump and check the springs inside. Just one would pop out of place. Would run great till spring would come out then would starve for fuel, pump the ball, would  run good for 15 or 20 minutes and start again. If your not going to use the fuel pump anyways it might be worth a look. At least you might find out if that was the problem.
Back to Top
fxbill View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: 05/24/2013
Location: Atlanta Ga
Status: Offline
Points: 63
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fxbill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/08/2013 at 8:10pm
I made several discoveries today. I'm still having issues, but they are getting a little better. I reconnected the electric fuel pump and thought that might do it..... it ran a little longer than normal, but that might have just been my imagination. I can let the engine cool down for even 2 minutes and it will start out running great again for about 5 minutes and then start missing again and get worse until it completely dies. I pulled the carb and lowered the float level a little....took the boat out again and same problem. I changed the coil pack and same problem. As I was reinstalling the carb though I made a discovery that has probably gone unnoticed for a long time and I thought I had definitely found the problem. I just happened to see a glimpse of copper in the black plastic mesh that covers the wires coming out of the ignition pack. On closer observation it was obvious that at some point....and the copper color was new and very clean....that the wires from the ignition pack were being pulled up into the teeth of the flywheel and shorting out. I just knew that I had found the problem! 2 of the wires had the insulation nicked out and so I taped up the entire bundle and secured it down with a wire tie so it couldn't be pulled up into the flywheel. We made it all the way down the lake and most of the way back  (which is the farthest it's ever made it without starting to die) and I was convinced that I'd found the problem. All of a sudden it began again, but not nearly as bad and the motor continued to run even though it was missing like crazy. I'm now wondering if the two exposed spots on the adjacent wires might now be arcing between them. It was just dumb luck that I saw it....the sunlight happened to hit the copper at just the right angle to make it glint into my eye. Tomorrow I'm going to wrap the wires individually or possibly even splice into them and solder them with a couple of layers of shrink tubing and try it again. I don't know what the output of that module is, but the service manual says the output to the coil needs to be at least 200 volts or more at idle and higher at running speeds. That's enough to arc between two exposed spots on wires next to each other since there's less than 1/16th in gap between the bare spots. I'm crossing my fingers that's it. Just the simple taping made a huge difference though. I'm also wondering if perhaps the module was hurt by the shorting although I don't think it would run at all if it was. Cross you fingers for me....I think I'm headed in the right direction now!


Edited by fxbill - 06/08/2013 at 9:48pm
Back to Top
grimmjj View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: 05/11/2013
Location: malvern, ohio
Status: Offline
Points: 129
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote grimmjj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/08/2013 at 9:45pm
Congrats on the find. I hope thats the problem. Good luck to you.. keep us posted. I'm follinwing intently..lol 
1981 playbouy 24' model admiral std.
1979 35hp johnson 35el79a
1995 9.9 evinrude e10releoe
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 4>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.01
Copyright ©2001-2014 Web Wiz Ltd.