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2ltime 1981 Muncie Metal Spinning 24ft

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KenC1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/13/2010 at 8:26pm
Tom do you know whether the transom has been replaced or modified?   I"m like adakops, I don"t think your motor placement will make any difference.  The transom looks way too high to me.  JMHO
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 2ltime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/14/2010 at 8:29am
The transom is adjustable a little bit.  I think I will try that next.  What is the relationship between the cavitation plate and the water line supposed to be?





The gray piece is a leftover from the old steering cable attachment.
Tom Lake Anna, VA
1981 Muncie Metal Spinning All Aluminum Funtoon 24ft 23" dia toons
1985 Johnson 60hp
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Woody Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/14/2010 at 9:41am
I"m confused. The owner is saying it looks to him like the motor is setting too low, and others think it is setting too high. I"m with Rick, it appears that if it were setting any higher the prop would be out of the water. The critical test is how the cavitation plate sits in relation to the water level, and if it ventilates while running.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 2ltime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/14/2010 at 10:45am
That is really my problem I do not know enough to know where the cav plate should be in relation to the water line.  The boat sits up real high but the motor was sitting real low in the water.  The bottom of the transom is just above the waterline.  What I think is the cav plate actually sits below the waterline a little. How do you know if it is ventilating?
Tom Lake Anna, VA
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/14/2010 at 11:55am

Ventilation is the result of air or exhaust gases being pulled into the propeller blades. This causes the blades to lose their grip on the water, the engine RPMs go up and the forward speed of the boat is reduced. Sometimes when the propeller RPMs increase, it can also cause a massive cavitation, which only compounds the problem. Most outboard and stern-drive engines have anti-ventilation plates made onto the lower unit housing directly above the propeller. Many people mistakenly call them cavitation plates or possibly anti-cavitation plates, but that is incorrect. The anti-ventilation plate does not stop or help prevent cavitation. Its sole purpose is to prevent surface air from being sucked into the negative pressure side of the propeller blades.

Ventilation can also come from exhaust gases being introduced into the blades of the prop. Most propellers have some sort of ring around the trailing edge of the exhaust hub. This ring creates a high-pressure barrier that prevents exhaust gases from being sucked back into the blades. Other sources for ventilation include the leading edge and sides of the motorís lower unit and the bottom of the boat. Inspect your lower-unit housing for any imperfections in the surface directly in front of the propeller. Knicks, gouges, scratches or barnacles can all disturb the water flow to the propeller, and cause ventilation.

For some more reference see http://www.boatfix.com/how/props.html

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote p3cflyr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/14/2010 at 12:45pm
We"re all in the same ball park here.  Just addressing the issue of engine height differently.  So, 2ltime, why do you think it is too low.  What does it do that makes you think it is too low, or was too low.

The recommendation I have seen the most is the plate (anti cav, cav, anti air, whatever) is set near level the bottom of the transom pan on pontoon boats.  This also assumes the transom pan is in the water when setting at rest.  Yours appears much shallower (well above the water) than those I have seen  I"ve not seen anyone address this Plate"s relationship to the waterline as Woody has said.  Hopefully some one can address that.  I don"t have the experience to do so.   I will say my transom pan sets about 4 inches below waterline at rest.  Maybe 5, I"ll,have to check.  That would suggest that my plate is about 5 - 6  inches below the water line at rest.

But if there is some reason you believe it is low it would help.

For what all of this is worth.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/14/2010 at 12:58pm
I agree with Woody and adakops. Actually I have some concern even about the structure of your transom piece as there doesn"t seem to be sufficient secureness (for lack of a better word) which would put more stress on your support members. But with the information you now have in hand, see how far down the cavitation plate is under water. The normal rational for cavitation plate to transom went out the window with yours so you can"t use that. Also, put people on board to simulate what weight you"ll have if you had furniture (if you"re adding furniture), batteries, gas and whatever your normal carrying capacity is, otherwise you"ll be doing this "adjusting" again when you do get everything on board as you may find the motor really down in the water when fully loaded.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 2ltime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/14/2010 at 3:42pm
Thanks guys,

I am not sure it is too low now.  I raised it 3 inches and it runs better now, a whole lot less water kicked up out back. I think it was just pushing a lot of water.  The motor was almost invisible before behind a wall of water.  I was really just wanted to make sure I was close to where it should be.  I think the av plate is now about 2 inches below the service when loaded.  I can"t raise the motor on the transom but I think if it needs to still come up I can adjust the transom up.  It is the original transom.  This boat came as an electric model but is rated for 60hp.   It is supprisingly stable. 

my next big issue is water spray coming over the front.  They did not put splash guards on the toon cones.  I am going to have to have some made and welded on. If you are going more than a couple mph everyone gets wet.



Tom Lake Anna, VA
1981 Muncie Metal Spinning All Aluminum Funtoon 24ft 23" dia toons
1985 Johnson 60hp
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/14/2010 at 3:50pm
Most definitely need splash guards then. Don"t confuse the ventilation plate with the cavitation plate though, oh I see you meant surface when you wrote service (whew threw me for a loop)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 2ltime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/20/2010 at 7:15pm

Ok, did another trip on the lake yesterday.  Running better, but I think I am going to raise the transom a little bit.  The plate is still down about 3 inches below the surface.  Next issue is the splash guards.  Here are photos of the front.  I need to go find myself a good aluminum welder.

 

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1981 Muncie Metal Spinning All Aluminum Funtoon 24ft 23" dia toons
1985 Johnson 60hp
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/20/2010 at 7:24pm
3 inches below the surface at rest or when running wide open? Reson I ask is that when running, the motor will tend to lift some. I"d be afraid if you go too much higher, the prop may ventilate. But if it"s easy for you to test it, then it couldn"t hurt to go up some more and give it a try.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 2ltime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/20/2010 at 7:39pm

It is running low at speed.  Because my boat is so lite(and sits so high) when I finally add seating it will sit even lower.

I am going to make sure to see some examples from whomever I find to do the welding.  I have to get those guards on as I get alot of spray coming over the front even at lower speeds.

Tom Lake Anna, VA
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1985 Johnson 60hp
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 2ltime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/23/2010 at 7:04pm
Well I think found a good welder.  He does all the local marina"s and has been doing pontoons since the first one showed up on the lake back in the early 70"s.  Should have it back in a week.  I will post some pics when I get it back.  Fingers crossed.
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1985 Johnson 60hp
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 2ltime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/02/2010 at 9:41am

Back from the welders. He did a nice job.  This is the transducer mount he put on the back.  Best we could come up with on this really rounded back end.



I had him extend the deck mounts as far back as he could go.  I want to move the rails back a foot and add in a permanent tank over the new section on one side and the battery on the other.  I will have to fab up some new rails for the extension.  That kind of welding I can do (or will be able to when the time comes).



The most important right now were the front splash guards.  Can"t wait to see if they work.



***added spacing between text and pics for a better view***



Edited by Wildcat Dude
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1985 Johnson 60hp
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VaGent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/02/2010 at 10:45am
You got it looking good now Tom. I like your idea of a permanent extension on the back to mount your tank & battery seperate.  Hope you are planning on getting out on thewater over the 4th.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/02/2010 at 12:52pm
Looking good!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 2ltime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/02/2010 at 6:01pm
Thanks everyone.

Just back from the lake. Wanted to beat the weekend crowds. The splash guards worked great.  Hardly a drop even at WOT.  Took the gps out and about 21mph at 4100rpm.  Pretty happy with that.  Most of the time we are just cruising slow anyway.  Nice too know it can get up and go though.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/02/2010 at 6:54pm
21mph at 4100 rpm with a 60hp - WOW especially on a 24ft"r, now I"d be interested to know what it really would do at WOT and 5500 rpm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/02/2010 at 6:55pm
Oh and where"s the pics????
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 2ltime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/06/2010 at 8:35am

Got out on the lake yesterday evening. Did not want to fight the crowds on the weekend.  The motor is idling better.  Replaced all the rubber hoses.  Still not perfect yet.  Replaced all the bunks on the trailer. I think we have decided to build our furniture.  I will document as we go.

Some lake pics. My daughter.



Here are my boys



I think I am going to go back to the VRO.  I have all the stuff to hook back up.  I want to put a permanent tank and I do not want to have to pre-mix anymore.



Edited by Wildcat Dude
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/06/2010 at 9:15am
Guess I"m just a premix kinda guy. I just noticed the daugther wasn"t wearing a life vest in the 1st pic, but is in the 2nd pic and so are the boys, so I assume you guys were underway when the 2nd pic was taken and what is that she has in her hand? Vegetables? I can tell one of the boys is into crackers (or vanilla wafers maybe).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 2ltime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/06/2010 at 10:15am
We were anchored in the first and cruising around the lake in the second.  The wife always packs fruit when we go out, also junk food.  Chicken-In-A-Biscuit crackers.  Back to 100 deg for the next few days but can"t get out until the weekend.  The wife and I are taking a boating course this weekend to get our licenses.  Not required for couple of years but I would like to know what all the signs mean.LOL
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Click here for a summary of Virginia"s requirements.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 2ltime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/10/2010 at 7:07pm
The wife an I finished the boat course today(9-5 long day).  Good day for it as it rained finally.  Actually learned a few things.  Now to get back to the projects.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 2ltime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/12/2011 at 9:31am


Found a great deal on some used furniture.  500 for a complete set.  One bench is not in picture.  Only the corner unit has any damage to the seat.  I will have to recover the seat cushions.  Now that I have seats I need to get into gear and relocate the fence, extending it out over the extensions on the rear toons I had put on last year.  Will also have to make a sun deck over to reduce the engine noise.  More updates to follow.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 2ltime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/12/2011 at 1:57pm

Here is a shot of the "new" used seating.  Cleaned up really nice.  Next will be making the new back railings.


Edited by Wildcat Dude - 06/12/2011 at 2:16pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 2ltime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/12/2011 at 2:08pm
Starting work on the rear fencing.  First shot is of the pile of aluminum I am starting with.



Here is the extensions I had put on last year.  I am going to extend the deck out over these extension then move the rear fence back 9 inches.


After much trial and error, I am using the Alumiweld rods from HF.  To much burn thru using the mig welder.  No spool gun so also a lot of jams.  Once you get the hang of these rods they really do work well.  First task to build a frame to support the deck.  Right side toon is going to house the battery and oil tank, left side a new 14 gal fuel tank


Here is the placement of the frame.  I have 1/2 inch DOT treated plywood for the deck portion.


Here is with the plywood on it.  Perfect height.  So nice when thinks actually work out.

 
***added spacing between text and pics***


Edited by Wildcat Dude - 06/12/2011 at 2:17pm
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1985 Johnson 60hp
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 2ltime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/12/2011 at 2:13pm
I am trying to save some money so after removing the rear fence I realized it would be almost a perfect fit for the new side.  A little overhang but I ca live with that for now.  If it cools down will try and finish the fencing tonight.



I am also going to build a sundeck over top.  Mostly to cut down on engine noise while cruising around.
***added spacing between text and pics***


Edited by Wildcat Dude - 06/12/2011 at 2:18pm
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1985 Johnson 60hp
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bo and Susan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/12/2011 at 10:05pm
Hi, That looks really good! We are hoping to do something similar to the rear of our boat. We`ll be following your thread to steal ideas LOL. Plenty of pictures please!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 2ltime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/18/2011 at 12:23pm
A little more progress.  All the aluminum fabrication is done.  All fit pretty good..  Waiting on my new paneling,fuel tank and switch panel to come in.  Should be here Monday.  Got my youngest son to help me out this morning before it got too hot.  Have to cut the 3/4 plywood for the sun deck.  I made a separate aluminum frame and will attach the plywood to that, then hinge it on the new railings.  I have the foam and vinyl to cover it.


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1985 Johnson 60hp
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